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He's a good scorer but he's not all that for wage efficiency, you have to be a two-way player at that salary. You can make a scorer for around 200k.

I agree it's highly possible to make less efficient players but it concerns me that one of England's better player developers thinks Corral is wage-efficient when I don't think he is.







Last edited by Elmacca at 4/11/2020 4:43:28 AM

By the way, just something you might want to consider. Back in the day when I had an elite B3 team it was lack of rebounding that got me knocked out by the eventual B3 Champs.

Low JS and low SB = super salary efficient player, you can't have a C more efficient than that. And I'm not saying this is best for the NT, of course you'd want everything you can get irrespective of salary considerations, but if people are concerned about salary (understandable) then that's a player to look at.

For the sake of argument let's have an example of a player that would fit Corral's general blueprint (I don't remember his skills on top of my head and I wouldn't post his actual current skills even if I knew them):
- This player https://i.imgur.com/pWsMqIj.png: 179k salary and 94%-100% cap-wise (technically you could add an extra ID or 2 before cap, but in reality you would not be able to contain SB to such low levels, so it wouldn't be possible
- This player https://i.imgur.com/h9NxuHK.png: 280k salary and fully capped

The second player is the same as the first with 4 extra JS and 5 extra SB. Is the second player better and therefore more useful for the NT? Undoubtedly yes. For any regular team is it worth paying 101k extra salary in a single player for those 9 extra skills, especially considering both these players will play C most of the time? I don't really think so.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/11/2020 12:06:47 PM

I'm a big fan of rebounding, every time I struggled in BB was due to lack of rebounding (mostly). With NT teams (not B3) it seems that scoring is more efficient, so either this impression is wrong (very possible) or the more efficient scoring is real and likely a byproduct of other things, like flow and such. I'd need to get pbps to check this.

The first guy has wayyyy too much JR.

Second guy can score and rebound but doesn't have the right mix of OD and SB, he still can't defend anyone much.

Nobody said it was easy :-)

Anyway, it's not like Vecx needs any advice on training a big, he already knows where Innes was slightly off and he's the closest we've had to a perfect club/NT player.

I think you have to go one or the other, it's tremendously difficult to work round a 210k salary at club level, especially ifthat player isn't a great scorer. The NT player really needs to be a second team project if he's going to be a great NT player.

Barik is a great EBBL player to build a starting unit around and a so-so NT player when he's just a role player but at least he's worth his 200k salary.

Last edited by Elmacca at 4/11/2020 1:56:25 PM

JR is irrelevant to cap and salary in that example, if you wanted you could increase it almost at no extra cost, but since PA and OD are the same, it would make sense to focus heavily on those.

Maybe we are having parallel conversations: I just tried to show what difference higher JS and not punting SB (or another inside skill) has on the salary and cap of a player, because Bora mentioned there are prospects who could be improved, but aren't because the owners are worried about the salary.

The first player is salary efficient to an extreme extent and in fact you need near perfect initial skills and then control while training to pull that off. I bet you will find exactly 0 players with 56 TSP in their top 3 inside skills and less than 180k salary even if you check the TL every day for 2 straight seasons, that's how abnormally low that salary is. The reality of the situation is that if you start with 7/7/7/7 IS/ID/RB/SB, the player will train faster, but at the end of the journey you will struggle to both contain the salary and manage the cap, in particular if you are trying to punt anything other than IS.

I've had a player (Ma Anhui) where I punted IS (he had 12/18/18/18 inside skills). I personally don't think it works in a NT setting, the scoring just isn't enough even if both bigs have 18-20 SB and the entire team has higher than normal SB (as shown by Nachtmahr's Germany NT teams) although it is efficient salary-wise, so it could work in a club setting, but I would suggest to still stop at 16 RB and get more of the other skills than I did (my player was also an MVP not HoF). When these bigs with elite SB (even 19 or 20) face a guy like Corral or Innes, who also had a lot better outside scoring and more DR than Corral, they still give up fairly efficient scoring (my guy was a couple of years younger than Innes and they played several times).

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/11/2020 3:29:02 PM

Thank you and you managed to get the best out of them because ideally they'd have been getting 12 minutes or so off the bench.

Lemonshine, I'm going to have to disagree with you on JR not affecting cap, at least while players are listed as centres.

Last edited by Elmacca at 4/11/2020 4:07:15 PM

Is it just me who thinks Push the Ball is the worst tactic? Obviously it's dependent on your own personnel and opponent, but in an NT game against a better team? (possibly better team?)

I don't often question Vecx's wisdom, but I'm just throwing this out there. Maybe I've never had a team that suits it or I just don't know how to use it :) (so feel free to either teach me, or just everyone play it against me and win! ha)