BuzzerBeater Forums

You had 2 seasons to contact me about Kent Muniz (and Vernon Eubanks btw), nothing, then he is somehow on the U21 team.... great I don't mind.

You post here how well he played... great
Then you have the idea to PM me to train his IS and says he will pop in 1-2 weeks??
I wanted to have a meaningful discussion with you about how his age and height will mean closer to 1 pop every 3-4 weeks.
Plus 1 or 2 pops throughout the season won't matter much.

BUT NO, you tell me I can "do what you want, even destroy them and their GS."

I don't want to make a scene but I feel tremendous insult for having trained a U21 caliber player on my own, then to have you to swoop in and judge me? And instead of having a discussion you suggest I should instead throw the player away?

Can you be less toxic?
Can to community please enlighten me if we are in a dire need of more IS even though it looks more like we are thin on guards? (I was trying to base in on your comments last season about how U21 guards were low on OD, so I was on overdrive training OD all of last season)

I don't think it's the job of the managers to contact you, you are doing the scouting (U21 scouting is not that bad, only 5 leagues to scout every season and it's all on the same page), you have an idea of the new players, you contact the managers.

Sorry but I'm 100% with zmtomako on that one.

And I don't know if it's the language barrier or the translation but you're the one coming off as toxic here.

"But don't tell me such things about training speed. You are completely wrong."
I've had this argument time and time again but somehow eastern European managers don't seem to believe it and keep saying it doesn't change anything, idk why!
If you want a short player to have good inside skills, you got to train that FIRST, when he's 18. Training speed of inside skills does decrease a lot when he's 21 and short (which is the case of the 2 players here). That is a well known and well proven fact, you will easily get 5-6 more pops total by the time he'll reach 21, but of course he will be slightly worse on the outside skills.
Same is true with big players, you got to train outside skills first.
But if you do that kind of training, the primaries won't be good enough for the U21, it's only a long-term plan for the NT. When the player potential is low there's not a whole lot of incentive to do that, you'll just end up with a OK backup SF

we're not saying that 1 pop per 1-2 weeks is not possible at age 21, we're saying that a short player will get that when training outside skills at 21, and a big player will get that when training inside skills at 21. However if you train the short player on inside skills or the big player on outside skills at 21, you'll get 1 pop every 2-3weeks if you're lucky.

There's no need for a new debate, I'm sure you have a good communication with a few canadian managers. However seeing that 2 players on your team (that's 1/8 of the team!) come from a manager with whom you had 0 communication in the past is worrying. You've got to be proactive before they reach 21yo and contact all the managers of players with good starting skills and reasonable potential as soon as they are drafted. As I said it's not that hard for the U21, there's only 5 active leagues in Canada + a few ghost in d3.
If there's something like 4 or 5 players worthy of training for the U21 in each league draft, that's like 30 managers to contact. It's really not the end of the world. If you wait until the player reach 21, or only communicate with the ones that contact you first, you end up in the current situation.
I'm not saying that's what you do and I don't know your previous history with zmtomako, but if that's what really happened I understand his frustration and his response.

As for training speed, josef_ka data is almost a decade old by now. The principles remain valid but cross training was added after that, and the basic information is right there in the game manual:

"younger players will improve more quickly than older ones, and taller players will train faster in some areas while shorter players improve faster in others. You'll have to take advantage of this information to optimize your training routine."

I would be really impressed if you manage to get 9-10 pops in one season at age 21 while doing "out of height" training

Yeah that's the thing, and for a U21 where you got a time limit (21yo), if you want secondary skills you got to train them first.
Let's say X is 2 in your example.

Player 1 gets only outside training:
year 1 - 10 OSP pops
year 2 - 8 OSP pops
year 3 - 6 OSP pops
year 4 - 5 OSP pops

total : 29 OSP pops

Player 2 gets 1 year inside training then 3 year outside training:
year 1 - 5 ISP pops
year 2 - 8 OSP pops
year 3 - 6 OSP pops
year 4 - 5 OSP pops

total : 19 OSP / 5 ISP

Player 3 gets 1 year inside training at 21 after 3 years outside training:
year 1 - 10 OSP pops
year 2 - 8 OSP pops
year 3 - 6 OSP pops
year 4 - 2.5 ISP pops

total : 24 OSP / 2.5 ISP

Player 3 is way worse than player 1 in primaries, and only marginally better in secondaries. If you want secondaries, player 2 is the way to go.

For NT the reasoning is slightly different. In the end you can get the same number of pops, but if you focus on primaries, his salary will go up way faster, and you risk capping him before you got time to train him on secondaries. The other "problem" is that when he's 25, you'll see him pop maybe once every 6-8 weeks if training out of position, instead of once every 3-5 weeks if training primaries. The elastic effect helps getting these last few pops quicker though, you just got make sure to not hit the cap

I did not spell out the details of our conversations to the public, I am not looking for social justice, seems more like you are

I continue to preach that the U21 manager needs to help build a community if we ever want to succeed
I also was asking if IS is critically important, as I feel this should be a larger discussion for those who care about the U21

My intention is for you and for the community to understand whatever method you are trying is very negative and isolating managers who want to help the program

Like we said earlier last season, no one is disagreeing with your game tactics, its just how you are handling the human side of things