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we're not saying that 1 pop per 1-2 weeks is not possible at age 21, we're saying that a short player will get that when training outside skills at 21, and a big player will get that when training inside skills at 21. However if you train the short player on inside skills or the big player on outside skills at 21, you'll get 1 pop every 2-3weeks if you're lucky.

There's no need for a new debate, I'm sure you have a good communication with a few canadian managers. However seeing that 2 players on your team (that's 1/8 of the team!) come from a manager with whom you had 0 communication in the past is worrying. You've got to be proactive before they reach 21yo and contact all the managers of players with good starting skills and reasonable potential as soon as they are drafted. As I said it's not that hard for the U21, there's only 5 active leagues in Canada + a few ghost in d3.
If there's something like 4 or 5 players worthy of training for the U21 in each league draft, that's like 30 managers to contact. It's really not the end of the world. If you wait until the player reach 21, or only communicate with the ones that contact you first, you end up in the current situation.
I'm not saying that's what you do and I don't know your previous history with zmtomako, but if that's what really happened I understand his frustration and his response.

As for training speed, josef_ka data is almost a decade old by now. The principles remain valid but cross training was added after that, and the basic information is right there in the game manual:

"younger players will improve more quickly than older ones, and taller players will train faster in some areas while shorter players improve faster in others. You'll have to take advantage of this information to optimize your training routine."

I would be really impressed if you manage to get 9-10 pops in one season at age 21 while doing "out of height" training

Yeah that's the thing, and for a U21 where you got a time limit (21yo), if you want secondary skills you got to train them first.
Let's say X is 2 in your example.

Player 1 gets only outside training:
year 1 - 10 OSP pops
year 2 - 8 OSP pops
year 3 - 6 OSP pops
year 4 - 5 OSP pops

total : 29 OSP pops

Player 2 gets 1 year inside training then 3 year outside training:
year 1 - 5 ISP pops
year 2 - 8 OSP pops
year 3 - 6 OSP pops
year 4 - 5 OSP pops

total : 19 OSP / 5 ISP

Player 3 gets 1 year inside training at 21 after 3 years outside training:
year 1 - 10 OSP pops
year 2 - 8 OSP pops
year 3 - 6 OSP pops
year 4 - 2.5 ISP pops

total : 24 OSP / 2.5 ISP

Player 3 is way worse than player 1 in primaries, and only marginally better in secondaries. If you want secondaries, player 2 is the way to go.

For NT the reasoning is slightly different. In the end you can get the same number of pops, but if you focus on primaries, his salary will go up way faster, and you risk capping him before you got time to train him on secondaries. The other "problem" is that when he's 25, you'll see him pop maybe once every 6-8 weeks if training out of position, instead of once every 3-5 weeks if training primaries. The elastic effect helps getting these last few pops quicker though, you just got make sure to not hit the cap

I did not spell out the details of our conversations to the public, I am not looking for social justice, seems more like you are

I continue to preach that the U21 manager needs to help build a community if we ever want to succeed
I also was asking if IS is critically important, as I feel this should be a larger discussion for those who care about the U21

My intention is for you and for the community to understand whatever method you are trying is very negative and isolating managers who want to help the program

Like we said earlier last season, no one is disagreeing with your game tactics, its just how you are handling the human side of things

It's not too hard to send a message to every manager of draft players with potential > perennial allstar (or allstar) asking if they want to train their player for the U21. Like I said, it's something like 30 managers tops each season.

If you wait until the players are 20yo, you miss a whole lot of potential player who could have received training and rely solely on the few managers that know what to do, no wonder the team is not 100% to your liking!

he already said above that he doesn't even do scouting right out of the draft, let alone see which players are of potential use, and to bother to message them

and@NBA_4_fun, stop trying to throw shade at Music_Chick.

Last edited by Statsman at 9/25/2020 12:10:31 PM

Holy shit what a sad state of affairs.
It's a U21 team, not rocket science.
Maybe someone that knows what they're doing needs to run again in a few months.

you seem like a decent manager, maybe you could give it a try? who knows you might win a game or 2 ;)