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You don't have to sell it to me ;) I was just wondering how these opposing ideas come to live, taking into account that this game has (had) multiple aspects that do not actually work as designed/described.

If there's a negative elastic effect, creating aspiration would have no interest because the positive effect would be canceled by the negative one. But it's a fact that training, for example, 1on1 until 20 DR, then OD until 20 is much better than training both skills at the same time.

You're looking at the wrong place. Basically negative elastic effects work like this: if you have two players: 16 DR and 12 OD and 16 DR and 3 OD, the first player will pop to 17 DR faster, because the DR-OD gap isn't as far as the latter. Meanwhile the latter will have much faster OD training compared to the former.

I agree that it is a fact that OD trains faster when you hit 20 DR before training OD. But are you sure that you aren't training DR at a slower pace?

I guess to answer this we might have to run coach parrot and see which hits 20 DR 20 OD at an earlier pace.

That sir, might not be a fact.

I just got curious and just ran some simulations with coach parrot.

Two players with skills all at 1, 6'0".

First player goes with a regime which trains his DR to have 6 points above OD, then train OD for 1 pop, and continue for 1 more pop. So throughout the entire regime, the player's DR and OD difference will be 5-6 levels.

Second player goes DR all the way to 20, and then OD all the way.

Based on the first training regime, to hit DR 20, his OD would have to reach 14. To achieve this point, if that kid started training today as a 18 year old (season 61 week 12), he would hit the point at season 69, week 9.

If we train DR all the way, he would hit 20 DR at season 68 week 4. At season 69 week 9, his OD is just 11. So that's 3 whole levels slower. He will only hit 14 OD on Season 70 week 8, which is almost 1 full season slower.

To make things more interesting, I adjusted the trainer level to 7 (by default coach parrot uses level 4). Your regime only hits that mark at season 69 week 1, while the first regime reaches that mark at Season 68 week 4. So even though the gap is smaller, it is still a good 11 weeks slower.

I don't know what other sources you have which can objectively back up your claims, but feel free to share them.

I guess to answer this we might have to run coach parrot and see which hits 20 DR 20 OD at an earlier pace.

That would be based on the assumption that Coach Parrot has the right formulae for the extreme, when you train the top skill. I know from experience that it has not.

The general formulae is right, but if you train OD with no Dr and Handling you will train from 17OD to 18OD a lot (at least twice) faster than the given numbers.

Last edited by boule at 8/2/2023 3:24:19 PM

Would you care to share some objective data on that?

I gave it, and said "from experience".

That may not be enough for you, but i invite you to try.

1-Last time i checked, more than 6 years ago, the formulae for elastic effect is the following: 0.91^(trainedskill-averageofskills in the elastic pool) if there is a 14 points difference we should get a *3.74 training. I've never seen such a training.I read once the story of a guy that had a +2 block points in such a case.

2-Once more, if the trained skill is the *top skill*, there is a calculated bad elastic effect that add to the effect with a formulae 0.925^(trainedskill-average of all skills)

The first one does not seem to be right if we take extreme values, the second one, and i stand by what i said, is not right at all from experience when you train over 16-17OD till 20 with an average Handling and dribbling (let says 10 or 11). I'm not discussing if it is right to train that kind of archetype.

May i add, that i do love @CoachParrot and @JoKa's work and i would advice anybody to have a look at it, and at @JoKa's threads.

I understand that it is "from experience". But is that "experience" a "from experience it takes 2 full seasons to hit 20 in DR and 1 season to hit 20 in OD while the other method takes more than 3 seasons to reach 20 OD 20 DR" experience or is it a "I don't know how long it takes but it feels faster" kinda experience?

Coz unless it is the first, it could be just a result of biaseness.

training OD 6 players for two more seasons while @coachparrot was telling me i would get a +1 in 11 training.

Thanks radomness.

I stop here. You are quick to search for info or biais on other but you do not doubt what you beleive to be true.