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BB Srbija > U21 National Team Debate Thread

U21 National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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This Post:
11
312998.18 in reply to 312998.17
Date: 01/15/2022 07:15:37
Бесни Цветићи
III.3
Overall Posts Rated:
461461
Second Team:
Mad Mamba Academy
Ajde i ja da izjavim nešto za dnevnik.

Uopšte nisam protiv dovođenja stranca na kormilo reprezentacije. Smatram da, pogotovo u slučaju trenutnog kandidata kao i prethodnog mandata koji je bio očajan, možemo samo da dobijemo. Možda nam se prikaže neki novi ugao gledanja na igru, možda propuštamo nešto pa to uvidimo uz njegovu pomoć.

S druge strane, Miladin Šobić je Crnogorac, ali umetnička duša, pesnik sveta... Kao takav, doneće mnogo u komunikaciji sa A selektorom, a to je opet jako bitno, ako ništa onda bar to što neće da radi na svoju ruku već će igrači da se oformljavaju kroz U21 sve do A reprezentacije. To bi značilo i da je svestan da nam je zajednica mala i da veće potencijale ne možemo da pravimo samo za mladu reprezentaciju nego oni od samog starta moraju da idu putem A tima.
Poznavajući dotičnog, ako se latio posla onda je ozbiljan i ima vremena, a volje i zaluđenosti za igricom mu ne manjka.

Biće ovo teška odluka, s tim da i ja malu prednost dajem Miladinu, ali bih voleo da se Bubble pridruži zajednici i stručnom štabu ukoliko Miladin bude mislio da je to ok. Takođe podržavam discord, trenutno imamo Slack kanal, ali besplatnu verziju koja prikazuje samo poslednjih 10.000 poruka.

Što se tiče priručnika, siguran sam da predizborna obećanja nisam davao. 😉
Pretpostavljam da se radi o onom trening planu koji Kinezi koriste, a to sam preveo. Nažalost nije okačen jer smo da ga prilagodimo i doradimo, ali nikako.

@Bubble In this translation I will just skip jibber jabber parts.
I am not against you or any other “gringo” as a national team manager. I think from that we can gain new insights in the game. Some new angle that we don’t see currently. Also, the last two seasons went pretty bad for us and looking at them we can’t lose with selecting you. About your opponent, he is very well known in community and he has his stamp on a lot of places. We got great things from him, and that time he was really passionate and gave all he got for the game and BB Serbia. That means a lot to all of us and from my point of view, that brings him a small advantage over you.
I really like your enthusiasm and would appreciate if you will join us regardless of the election results. I think that will be win-win situation for you, and for our community. With passion you play this game as well as Miladin and sismis (NT coach) I am sure Serbia will again be on the path of the glory!

Cheers and thanks for the candidacy!

No guts, no glory!
This Post:
00
312998.20 in reply to 312998.19
Date: 01/15/2022 09:09:51
KK Šumadija
III.5
Overall Posts Rated:
5050
Second Team:
KK Šumadija II
Kolega uz duzno postovanje prema titulama koji si osvojio i reprezentativcima koje imss u svojim redovima taj defetisticki stav treba da zadrzis za sebe! Ako si ti hteo da batalis igiricu ili je tvoje interesovanje opalo ne znaci da i kod ostalih koji prate i trude se oko obe reprezentacije Srbije.
Koliko sam shvatio tvoj post( ispravi me ako gresim ) treba da se odreknemo jedne od repki(koje?) kako bi ova druga napravila uspeh?Smatram da gresis iako si neosporno iskusniji menadzer od mene...
Moj glas ide Miladinu!

This Post:
22
312998.21 in reply to 312998.19
Date: 01/15/2022 09:23:29
Scorpions Mld
III.10
Overall Posts Rated:
280280
Evo i ja cu par reci ostaviti, posto do sada nikada nismo imali ovakvu situaciju, koja mogu reci, je jako korisna za nas kao bednu zajednicu...

Da se licno ja pitam oko rada u21, ostavio bih rezultate po strani i ne bi ih ocekivao od selektora.. Ok nek se trudi da pobedi naravno, ali bi mi fokus bio kako novim korisnicima, kao i onima koji su u finansijskom deficitu pomoci da od nasih igraca sa nesto nizim potencijalom <9 istreniraju tipske igrace koji su svakom klubu potrebni sa niskim platama za backup.. Priznace svi jaci klubovi da su van u rezervama potrebna dva igraca koji imaju 30-40k plate za koje bi i 1m dali a da zavrsavaju posao.. Tako bismo kroz 4-5 sezona dobili finansijski jacu zajednicu, pa bismo mogli sve dobre igrace da zadrzimo u Srbiji, bilo da je hof 18 god koji kosta 4m ili 31 god centar sa 260k platom... Atlas je dobar primer za to..decko odradio 3-4 garniture vrhunskih domacih igraca, nije sa njima napadao titule i kupove, pa tek nakon tih ciklusa dosao i izdominirao...

Dok >9 ptencijale, tipski i pedantno usmeravati za ono sto ce trebati potrebama Nta

Iz tog razloga, ali i istorije BB Srbije podrska ide Trbi.. Sa njim dobijamo konkretnu osnovu za NT i rezultati Nta ce uslediti brzo sa 20-30 menadzera koji ce saradjivati sigurno sa njim... Po vec vidjenom, on nakon dva mandata u u21 moze preuzeti NT i mirni smo 6 sezona i mozemo ocekivati rezultate, ako na Draftovi posluze iole... Toliko od matore skorpije...

ZIveli

From: Nemac
This Post:
33
312998.22 in reply to 312998.21
Date: 01/15/2022 14:03:41
Uzice Pigeons
III.4
Overall Posts Rated:
77
Potrebno je malo stvari sagledati iz vise uglova.

Zasto smo dosli do ovde dokle smo dosli i sta su razlozi tome, da li je tu doslo do samog zasicenja ili ima i nekih drugih faktora koji su nas doveli do 286 aktivnih korisnika iz nase zemlje.

Sa jedne strane imamo stranca koji je koliko vidimo pun entuzijazma, sa druge strane imamo Trbu koji se verujem seca tih lepsih vremena kada je BB Srbija u pitanju.

Koncept Amerikanca ogleda se u tome, ok uz mene naci cu jos 9-10 menadzera gde cemo napraviti tih 10-11 kakvih takvih igraca koji ce biti kompetentni na U21 nivou. I to je po meni dobar koncept, ali da u Srbiji ima bar 500+ aktivnih korisnika. Ali sa ovim brojem sto sada imamo to meni ne pije vodu nazalost. Ovaj koncept ukljucuje tih 10-11 ekipa (verovatno ce tu biti i stranih ekipa), i tu mi se ne svidja sto je to svedeno na minimalan broj ljudi. Rezultat verovatno ne bi izostao. Ali sta posle njega?? Sagledajmo to malo sire.

Najveci problem nase BB zajednice, novi korisnici vrlo kratko ostaju u igri. BB nije tezak kada se nauci, ali meni je bar na samom pocetku bio spansko selo. Nista o treningu nisam znao, nikakvu interakciju ni sa kim nisam imao, na forum nisam usao nijednom. Ali to se nekako vremenom iskristalisalo, zato jer nisam odustajao prebrzo kao sto se to sada radi.

To bi nekako valjalo promeniti, te liste sa novim talentima sa drafta, e ti ljudi su po meni jako bitni. Stupiti u komunikaciju sa njima , nauciti ih nekim osnovama igre. Kako funkcionise igra, kako funkcionise trening, sta je to bitno da bi ti igrac napredovao. I kada ti novi korisnici vide te strelice, i vide da im ti klinci napreduju osetice neku satisfakciju da zagrebu malo dublje u BB.

Sama komunikacija skauta sa vlasnicima tih talenata je jako bitna. Pa iz tog doba kada sam bio skaut , meni je Atlas bio jedan od boljih korisnika sa kojima sam imao odlicnu komunikaciju , secam se da je tad napravio par vrlo dobrih klinaca. I verujem da ga je taj trening i neki umereni napredak ostavio u igri i doveo ovde gde se sada nalazi.

Jer nekako bude ti lepo kada vidis te strelicu petkom u 11h.

Sto se tice BB prirucnika bilo je promena u igri. Ali i ovakav kakav je sad , verujem da bi svakom novom korisniku bio od
velike pomoci i dan danas.

Dolaze novi ljudi na BB i danas, ali ih mnogo vise odlazi posle kratkog vremena a da nisu istrazili ni 2% igre. Hajde da probamo da ih zainteresujemo sa ovim novim klincima a i buducim. Ja verujem da situacija moze da se popravi, tj. od ovoga i nema gore. :)

Vecina od njih nece napraviti tog famoznog mladog reprenzetativca, ali na kraju krajeva dobice par igraca koje su sami napravili i koji ce im biti okosnica ekipe (a da nisu dinara dali za to). Tako ce nam ojacati i same lige a i dobicemo bolje takmicare i kvalitetnije igrace.


Toliko od mene. Moj glas ostaje nasem coveku iz gore navedenih razloga.

This Post:
00
312998.23 in reply to 312998.21
Date: 01/15/2022 14:19:14
KK Zekica
Prva Liga
Overall Posts Rated:
386386
Second Team:
Rabbit Hole
Mislim da iza Sismisa ipak ide Tuna 😁
On ne zeli da mu neki tamo vodi dvojicu buducis reprezentativaca 😋

Jedino ako Sismis ove sezone ne mazne SP 😁

From: E.B.W.

This Post:
11
312998.24 in reply to 312998.19
Date: 01/15/2022 14:21:20
ExplosiveBubbleWrap
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
14061406
Second Team:
BubblesExploded
With all due respect, I disagree. You don't have to choose A team or U21 team. The best example of this is Israel.

They have 100 users less than Serbia, and yet they are number 1 in the world for their national team and number 5 in the world for the U21 national team ... All with only 186 users.

While I think there should definitely be some rules for 10 potential players (and some 9 potential players), to say there aren’t enough users to keep both teams competitive and strong in my opinion is incorrect.

All 8 potential players and below them can be trained for U21, and a good number of 9 potential players can be trained for U21 because they would never be in Team A.

Uz dužno poštovanje, ne slažem se. Ne morate da birate A tim ili U21 tim. Najbolji primer za to je Izrael.

Imaju 100 korisnika manje od Srbije, a opet su broj 1 na svetu za svoju reprezentaciju i broj 5 na svetu za U21 reprezentaciju... Sve sa samo 186 korisnika.

Iako mislim da bi definitivno trebalo da postoje neka pravila za 10 potencijalnih igrača (i nekih 9 potencijalnih igrača), reći da nema dovoljno korisnika da bi oba tima bila konkurentna i jaka po mom mišljenju je netačno.

Svih 8 potencijalnih igrača i ispod njih mogu biti obučeni za U21, a dobar broj od 9 potencijalnih igrača može se obučiti za U21 jer oni nikada ne bi bili u timu A.

Bubbles BuzzerBeater Official YouTube Channel:(https://www.youtube.com/@BubblesBuzzerBeater)
This Post:
00
312998.25 in reply to 312998.23
Date: 01/15/2022 15:01:11
Scorpions Mld
III.10
Overall Posts Rated:
280280
U te dogovore nisam upucen :)

Koliko znam tuna je nasledio Ivka i uzeo pehare i na Ep i Sp, sto znaci da ako se on kandiduje, treba da bude bitan trenutni faktor u U21, kako bi znao na koje igrace ce racunati u buducnosti i da ih doradi po svojim vizijama..

E sad Amer ili Trba sa tunom...birajte ;)

This Post:
22
312998.26 in reply to 312998.24
Date: 01/15/2022 16:19:41
Tunjevina
III.12
Overall Posts Rated:
544544
Second Team:
Krompir
Your username sounds familiar to me... Can you tell us more about your club results and why you made a new account?

We used to have great u21 managers, but I think the problem was that managing u21 took a lot more time than managing a senior squad, because there's a lot more players who can potentially reach u21 NT.

Our previous success with u21 came from a lot of hard work from our NT managers and scouts who were in constant contact with everyone having a potential u21 trainee, and every draft there were 150+ players with 6+ potential.

Than the BBs made 19yo better, and thus even more players were supposed to be scouted and followed, and we simply didn't have enough people in the community to do it.

We don't need to look at Israel to know that the success of both NTs is possible, since Serbia has already done it before. But a lot of hard work is needed from the entire community, and that's something we've failed to do in the recent years.

With the number of users that we have at the moment, all draftees with 10 AND 9 potential are planned to be trained for a senior squad, meaning secondary skill training in the first few seasons is a priority. Only those MVPs with poor secondary skills (ex. a tall 18yo with low OD) are usually planned to be trained for u21.

I agree that we can still have a strong u21 without “sacrificing” 9-10 potentials. Guards with 7-8pot won't reach their limit in the first 4 seasons anyway, and even those with 6pot can be beast LI guards with high OD and IS. The problem is inside, but even if we can't focus on training primary skills as much as other bigger nations, our centers should have better secondary skills, and as you pointed out, shot blockers can also be very helpful for u21, since SB doesn't cost much, and can be trained to a high level even on lower potentials.
It seems that you shook our sleeping community a bit, which is what we needed Both candidates seem to be a good choice at this point, so whoever gets elected, I expect better times for our u21.



Mislim da nece biti lose ako nam E.B.W. bude selektor. Vidi se da ima iskustva i motivacije, a osvojiti 4 zlata zaredom je vraski tesko sa bilo kojom reprezentacijom, tako da za to skidam kapu.

S druge strane mislim da bi i Trba bio dobar izbor. Medju nama je “burna proslost”, ali to je ostalo tamo gde i treba, u proslosti. Ako ima motivacije da zapne sa radom, verujem da bi u21 mogla da se uzdigne sa njim. Ako vec ima dobar odnos sa sismisom, to je definitivno plus, jer ako cemo ponovo da napravimo paukovu mrezu u koju 'vatamo BB sile, dobra saradnja izmedju dva selektora je tamo gde mreza pocinje da se plete.

Sacekacu da vidim sta jos kandidati imaju da napisu pre nego sto glasam. Ali dugo nismo imali dve kvalitetne opcije za selektora. Ko god da pobedi imace moju podrsku... sve dok ne bude izgubio prvi mec, onda naravno krece pljuvacina u stilu Darka Milicica

This Post:
11
312998.27 in reply to 312998.23
Date: 01/15/2022 17:11:50
Tunjevina
III.12
Overall Posts Rated:
544544
Second Team:
Krompir
Mislim da iza Sismisa ipak ide Tuna 😁

Ti bi da vazdusnog selektora nasledi vodeni?

Nisam ja dovoljno aktivan da bih bio selektor. Dovoljno je sto sam pomocnik sismisu. Za nesto vise od toga, za sad nemam motivacije.

This Post:
11
312998.28 in reply to 312998.26
Date: 01/15/2022 17:15:33
ExplosiveBubbleWrap
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
14061406
Second Team:
BubblesExploded
Hello tunjevina,

Thank you for your questions! I played BB on my other account (with the same username and team name) from about season 16-51. My main club was designated for mostly U21 players and my main priority had always been National Team coaching, scouting and assistance. As you said, aspects of helping with a U21 National Team can be very time consuming, so I found myself not caring about promotion or team building as much on my main team. I spent many seasons in D.III but I did not hold onto good 22-23 year olds, as I sold a lot of them for new U21 prospects. That was also when there were thousands of more users, so I imagine it is slightly easier to make D.II USA now.

If I am elected (and I hope that if my competitors are elected) there should definitely be an emphasis on increased scouting and contact with Serbian prospects. What I would want to look at implementing is something like:

U21 Coach - Stays in contact with 21 year old prospects (and top end 20 year olds)
Head Scout - Stays in contact with other 20 year old prospects
Lead Scout - Stays in contact with 19 year old bigs
Scout A - Stays in contact with 19 year old guards (splits with scout B )
Scout B - Stays in contact with 19 year old guards (splits with scout A)
Scout C - Stays in contact with 19 year old small forwards
Scout D - Stays in contact with 18 year old guards (emphasis on SG/SF prospects, splits with scout E)
Scout E - Stays in contact with 18 year old guards (emphasis on PG prospects, splits with scout D)
Scout F - Stays in contact with 18 year old small forwards
Scout G - Stays in contact with 18 year old bigs (emphasis on 9+ potential bigs, splits with scout H)
Scout H - Stays in contact with 18 year old bigs (emphasis on 7-8 potential bigs, splits with scout G)

This would be the U21 coach and then a staff of 10 and I believe is ideal. If we have slightly fewer users interested in being part of the scouting team, we can adjust the load accordingly. Based on the involvement on this debate thread already, I imagine we could get at least 6-7 awesome managers who want to help.

With the number of users that we have at the moment, all draftees with 10 AND 9 potential are planned to be trained for a senior squad, meaning secondary skill training in the first few seasons is a priority. Only those MVPs with poor secondary skills (ex. a tall 18yo with low OD) are usually planned to be trained for u21.


I have found some success in guiding these players with a shot at the Senior National Team to a Small Forward build for U21, since secondaries are trained first most of the time. Secondaries at ages 18-19 and then leaning more towards primary skills at ages 20-21 allow them to be viable for both U21 and the Senior Team.

I am absolutely loving how involved everyone is with this election!

Best,
Bubbles


Last edited by E.B.W. at 01/15/2022 17:16:08

Bubbles BuzzerBeater Official YouTube Channel:(https://www.youtube.com/@BubblesBuzzerBeater)
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