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U21 National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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From: Isaiah

This Post:
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252150.23 in reply to 252150.9
Date: 12/25/2013 12:34:37 AM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
Second Team:
Smallfries II
Heres another question that is rather selfish. I've been gone for a couple season (maybe 5-6?). What has changed in the game engine that can be exploited and what has changed in the scenery of the national stage? We can be local with the Americas side.


This topic if very debatable and can be opinionated. So, I feel there hasn't been much change since you left Jelme, except for the amount of teams transferring to outside offenses. With the decrease in cost of JR and SB it's only a matter of time before we see a more balanced community with a variety of tactics. SBing is one skill that has become more and more popular since you left as well. It is being noticed finally and there are top teams putting a priority on it now. Not quite in the USA, but foreign teams. I myself though have been very excited about SBing for several seasons now and am currently building a huge SBing center.

As for tactics, I believe it's becoming more and more easy to see different things work today. Princeton offense for example, which was viewed as a tactic you used to throw a game, has become increasingly popular.

This Post:
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252150.24 in reply to 252150.23
Date: 12/25/2013 12:46:32 AM
LionPride
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
246246
A bit off-topic, but I just want to say I am a huge fan of Princeton, and it can really work at the club level. More clubs should experiment with this, because it was easily my best offense for my U21 player Otto Reedy to play in.

From: Isaiah

This Post:
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252150.25 in reply to 252150.16
Date: 12/25/2013 12:47:11 AM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
Second Team:
Smallfries II
From: Jelme
Date: 12/24/2013 10:58:21 PM
And the U21 has thrown a game oriolekid. I believe you were new at the time.

In what situations would you ignore go against popular opinion (on the offsite mostly) and go on your own?


Great questions Jelme. Although should be expected from a former U21 manager.

I think one common misconception about the NT/U21 managers is that you have to go with whatever the concensus is. That isn't true though. In fact, we are spoiled to have so many managers on the offsite that are willing to give opinions.

The NT/U21 manager's duties is to run the team in a way that puts the team in position to be successful. Sometimes that includes going against the community as well. As the u21 manager I would definitely make sure to communicate all possible options so that nothing is a surprise. Negative feedback comes when your decisions are a complete surprise. I will be completely open with everyone in the community with what my opinions are and then allow them to voice their opinions as well. Ultimately though, it comes down to who has the ability to click the mouse and set the lineups and tactics.

I don't want to say I wouldn't go against the community because I know for a fact that I have differing opinions than many members, but I will keep everyone updated on what I am thinking. This will include a step by step breakdown of all my thoughts, similar to a journal, so everyone knows what I am thinking. If I have very strong opinions against the community though, I will use my power as a leader of the team to do what I believe is right.

This Post:
00
252150.26 in reply to 252150.25
Date: 12/25/2013 12:53:46 AM
LionPride
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
246246
Really, as long as you communicate what you're feeling with the offsite you're good. They'll point out flaws that you may have overlooked if there are any, or may give a very good addition to your plan. Just don't lead a week of discussion only to give the community a giant middle finger when they look at the box score.

From: fewmit

This Post:
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252150.28 in reply to 252150.25
Date: 12/25/2013 1:20:46 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
598598
Most of all though, and I say most of all because I have received many BB-mails about it, I am known for my love of SBing, outside offenses, and wanton to mix things up.
Can you elaborate on this part of your speech with specifics?

1. Do you want the U21 to run outside offenses? Which ones?
2. If yes, how many seasons would you think it would take to retune the player pipeline to have enough appropriate outside players at your disposal?
3. Mix up what? Offenses? Defenses? Training? Details please.
4. How do you value SB opposed to ID and what would a trainable good U21 big look like to you?

Group hug!
This Post:
00
252150.29 in reply to 252150.28
Date: 12/25/2013 1:31:03 AM
LionPride
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
246246
1. All of them
2. Short answer? 2 seasons. Long answer? 3 seasons
3. I think it's time to just delete the entire player database. Too much information for us to handle. We should just email a group of randomly selected players and tell them to follow this training plan or they're banned.
4. SB is not effective unless it is, at all times, at least 12 above ID. I'm not smallfries, but A good u21 guy would be 1/1/2/1/1/8 17/12/2/22. That may be the greatest player the NT has ever, and will ever see.

Edit: I feel like I must point out that I am kidding. I don't want to lose another election and then have someone BB-mail me asking if I was serious about running or not. Yes, I am very serious.

Last edited by oriolekid at 12/25/2013 1:33:36 AM

This Post:
11
252150.30 in reply to 252150.19
Date: 12/25/2013 1:43:20 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
598598
Question for Oriolekid - In season 23 you volunteered to be the NT opponent scout for Sleet. As far as I ever saw there were no postings or indication that you did any scouting to help the NT that season. I don't wish to mudsling, but this is the last point of involvement you had with either NT program, and considering this point I think I would need a little convincing about your ability to be a reliable U21 manager. Convince me.

Group hug!
This Post:
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252150.31 in reply to 252150.27
Date: 12/25/2013 1:47:46 AM
Upsyndrome
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
703703
Second Team:
Upsyndrome II
I acdiently deleted that post trying to edit it, due to a grammar error. This topic is closed till further notice.

"You will lose." -Ivan Drago
From: A-Dub

This Post:
22
252150.32 in reply to 252150.29
Date: 12/25/2013 2:30:19 AM
Upsyndrome
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
703703
Second Team:
Upsyndrome II
1. All of them
2. Short answer? 2 seasons. Long answer? 3 seasons
3. I think it's time to just delete the entire player database. Too much information for us to handle. We should just email a group of randomly selected players and tell them to follow this training plan or they're banned.
4. SB is not effective unless it is, at all times, at least 12 above ID. I'm not smallfries, but A good u21 guy would be 1/1/2/1/1/8 17/12/2/22. That may be the greatest player the NT has ever, and will ever see.

Edit: I feel like I must point out that I am kidding. I don't want to lose another election and then have someone BB-mail me asking if I was serious about running or not. Yes, I am very serious.


Is this all just a joke to you? You have some serious convincing to do, sir. Put on some booby tassels and show off your tah-tah's, or something. I need to see that you're committed! And yes, my vote counts, too! Do not disappoint me.


"You will lose." -Ivan Drago
From: Isaiah

This Post:
00
252150.33 in reply to 252150.28
Date: 12/25/2013 8:59:42 AM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
Second Team:
Smallfries II
Most of all though, and I say most of all because I have received many BB-mails about it, I am known for my love of SBing, outside offenses, and wanton to mix things up.
Can you elaborate on this part of your speech with specifics?

1. Do you want the U21 to run outside offenses? Which ones?
2. If yes, how many seasons would you think it would take to retune the player pipeline to have enough appropriate outside players at your disposal?
3. Mix up what? Offenses? Defenses? Training? Details please.
4. How do you value SB opposed to ID and what would a trainable good U21 big look like to you?


Thanks for the questions Fewmit.

1. Currently I do not believe the U21 is ready for an outside offense. My goal is to work with managers and create a pipeline of players to allow flexibility for future NT/U21 managers. There may be times to "test" or do different things because of the GDP, but those will most likely be against weaker opponents. I am a believer that the direction BB is going will force everyone to be able to run multiple tactics and we need to prepare now before it's too late.

2. This is ultimately dependent on the owners of players. If they are more willing to train outside oriented players ( which I believe more are) then I think we could have a team capable in 2 seasons. I will not force the issue to get it done in less time unless I see that there are several managers willing to do it now.

3. When I say mix things up this goes back to tactical decisions. I hate being predictable so I like to change tactics, as long as I am comfortable that the outcome will be positive.

4. This is a good question. At the U21 level we will struggle to see high SBing bigs just because there isn't enough time to train it and other things. I would say an ideal big would have SB equal to ID. So 13/13. The overall skillset would be 8/6/5/5/9/6/13/13/13/13. This player could fit the bill of outside and inside oriented for the U21. Also, lots depends on the skills players start with too. Maybe a better thing would be you give me the starting skills and ill tell you how I would train.

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