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A really important matter! I personally wouldn't want HGL to be completely closed to any managers currently not participating in the league and have genuine interest in enriching the league. I think engaging more people in this little HGL project could have somewhat of an impact for BB's future, where this might be implemented directly into the game (at least that's what I'm rooting for). It would be great to see Hadar returning to the league after a short absence and perhaps welcoming further managers here too.

On the other hand, currently most of the work falls on Wagner's plate and I'm just not sure if this could be sorted out by a regular vote. And I mean it in the sense that I can imagine most of us being in favor of welcoming any further managers to HGL, while all the responsibility goes to Wagner. You have pointed it out previously already, Wagner, that 18 teams in the league comes close to the limit that we (read: you) are able to handle, so the question would be, is there realistically any possibility, that we can expand the HGL to 20-22 teams? Are there any formats that might still work for an expanded league without too much extra input? Perhaps going for a league table only, as Paul George suggested, would be an option to consider in this case? Or maybe have only 4 teams advancing to POs?

Having written all this, yes, I think we should have this vote and extended discussion that might follow regardless, in the hope that we find a best possible solution to this.

Last edited by LA-LennuK at 5/28/2026 4:28:09 PM

How many teams are avaible and want to play HGL ?

I don't know if we need to vote or not but i'm sure that i'm ok to open HGL, [...]

I refreshed this content and published it as Season 5 post (as usual) yesterday:
(331392.83).
I strongly feel it should remain as a 1 tier league. HGL Promotion League (HGL-PL) would serve as an adequate platform for currently non-HGL teams to determine their "pecking order" in order to find best candidates for HGL "promotion". I don't have time to write a lengthy reply about this now, but this has been discussed in great length (mostly by myself and MrJ if my memory serves me) at the end side of Season 4 main HGL Thread.

I'm still waiting for managers to let me know their view on whether voting should be opened.

Remember, it's a voting in which voted options are already practically decided, and no totally radical changes will be voted on (even though it can be considered big thing in that sense, having a promotion/relagation final and open league to both ways), such as "should league expand to 22", should last 6 of RS be subjected to relegation threat, etc. etc..

In other words, the possible voting is in very short about whether or not the worst HGL team of the given Season (not Season 5 though!) should be subjected to relegation threat if they lose HGL Relegation/Promotion Final (HGL-RPF) against best non-HGL team (winner of HGL-PL).

But as said, voting has not been yet opened (but likely will open soon, if others want it opened as well).

Last edited by Wagner at 5/29/2026 5:05:47 AM

A really important matter! I personally wouldn't want HGL to be completely closed to any managers currently not participating in the league and have genuine interest in enriching the league. I think engaging more people in this little HGL project could have somewhat of an impact for BB's future, where this might be implemented directly into the game (at least that's what I'm rooting for). It would be great to see Hadar returning to the league after a short absence and perhaps welcoming further managers here too.

On the other hand, currently most of the work falls on Wagner's plate and I'm just not sure if this could be sorted out by a regular vote. [...]

To reply only to a part of your message for now, just as I replied to WiMaOl, this thing won't be solved perfectly by a vote.
Voting won't bring more time nor resources.

But it would make HGL what some might have wished for, an open league in a realistic sense of a word. Then, if you're better than worst HGL team on that Season, you have a chance to enter HGL. This is how many IRL leagues function too. Yes, in many leagues also second worst (or with big number of teams in some leagues, even 3 or 4 teams can be facing relegation, but as I mentioned, I strongly think that's way way too much and I don't want to "reward" committed and rule obeying HGL managers with such "reward") are facing relegation threat, but as said, that's too much of a negative impact for committed HGL teams.

You mentioned "I think engaging more people in this little HGL project could have somewhat of an impact for BB's future, where this might be implemented directly into the game (at least that's what I'm rooting for)."
Yes, I also hope that it would be implemented in a base game some day (if done properly). However, two aspects that maybe should be considered here:
Quality always over quantity. It doesn't speak well for the league, if quality is lessened just in order to make it bigger.
Rather keeping quality at as high level as possible (and possibly still opening doors to both ways in terms of relegation threat), but making people understand there are some capacity limits (due to work amount restrictions) gives out a message hopefully also to BB owners/devs, that this is what it can optimally be but can't expand in team numbers, and if you make it BB-wide solution, just automate it to the BB base game, in some sense 'give us your muscles and expand on this in terms of team amount'.
Of course I understand what you wrote (and reasoning behind that as well), but I just think concentration should first and foremost be in retaining as high standards, quality and content as possible.

For exaxmple giving up on HGL team stats would be huge blow to myself (and would lose tens of hours of base work needed to get it up and running) and would mean lot less meaningful content for HGL as I love stats. Everybody can just see how much match amounts would go up with 20 or 22 teams (remember, stats collection also is added that amount of work in addition to everything else).
20 would be the absolute max I think, but please don't expect that change to take place at least on Season 6. As I've written multiple times, I don't even prefer these 3 games weeks at all, let alone play them half of the Season.

3 managers that have now been BB-Mailed haven't yet commented on whether they want to continue on Season 6.

HGL 10. round, season 5:

Best collective performance of the evening

Point: 139 : WiMaOlCa
Defense: 67 : Virtus Portici
Tot. Rebound: 70 : Wagner College
Off. Rebound: 25 : BC Rajaleidjad
Assist: 39 : WiMaOlCa
Steal: 8 : Lielupes Melnās Sirdis & Madrid Chotis
Block: 12 : Lielupes Melnās Sirdis

Personal best performances of the evening

Point: 37 : Y. Lagneau (WiMaOlCa)
Tot. Rebound: 22 : J. Arminen (Wagner College)
Off. Rebound: 9 : M. Veetõusme (BC Rajaleidjad)
Assist: 14 : M. Bensala (WiMaOlCa)
Steal: 4 : T. Lacalle (Madrid Chotis)
Block: 7 : T. Dambekalns (Lielupes Melnās Sirdis)

The shooter: T. Linkova (Wagner College), N. Grévin (Les Gueux du Marais) & Y. Lagneau (WiMaOlCa): 5 Three points scored

The best performer: E. Karu (BC Eos): Rating: 19,0

Triple double: -

The idea of ​​allowing other teams to join the HGL is interesting. I think it's fair that to join this league, teams must face the bottom-placed teams from each season. This is intended to make the HGL more competitive. It could be called the HGL preliminary round. The bottom-placed team from the previous season faces the best of those aspiring to join the league. The best of the "outside" teams is decided in one-off matches on neutral ground.

HGL 11. round, season 5:

Best collective performance of the evening

Point: 144 : BC Rajaleidjad
Defense: 70 : KK Stihija
Tot. Rebound: 59 : Hårdboll
Off. Rebound: 26 : Hårdboll
Assist: 35 : KK Stihija
Steal: 8 : WiMaOlCa
Block: 25 : KK Stihija (new RS record!)

Personal best performances of the evening

Point: 44 : L. Duval (Elan Demars)
Tot. Rebound: 17 : A. Marroquín (Madrid Chotis)
Off. Rebound: 8 : D. Vikblad (Hårdboll)
Assist: 14 : Y. Lagneau (WiMaOlCa)
Steal: 3 : M. Bensala & V. Molina (WiMaOlCa)
Block: 11 : M. Kavazić (KK Stihija) (new RS record!)

The shooter: L. Duval (Elan Demars): 8 Three points scored

The best performer: M. Kavazić (KK Stihija): Rating: 19,5

Triple double: M. Kavazić (KK Stihija): 27-15-11 (P-R-B)

I think we all need to start thinking bigger.

1. If we want BB to seriously consider creating a space for HG teams, then we need to show them and allow for, HGL expansion.

2. If we are to expend, then we need to seriously consider and implement a structure that will cater for team expansion.
[....]
Obviously this is only a suggestion[....]

Hello MrJ,
I suspect that it would take an hour to hour and a half to write a proper reply (as there are so many points that I'd like to address), so I don't have time nor energy for that right now.

But long reply short (with lots of shortcuts taken here, so it's not a complete nor probably a final reply); as to your '1.', HGL doesn't need to become like regular BB league in order for BB to consider HGL as official 'add-on', I think. I suspect they would do it their own way nevertheless, not depending on what kind of format HGL uses. It would be nice if they'd consult us with all the details, but that's unlikely.

To your '2.', I think having a simple league, such as HGL Promotion League (for currently non-HGL teams) gives already teams a chance to play against 'non-HGL but still HG'-competition. I don't see how that would not be fair enough compromise. It wouldn't, however, be like 'a B division' or anything like that (as I'm not in favor of a two-tier league), but it would still:
A) let non-HGL HG teams interested in HGL participation play some games, and
B) give realistic chance for teams to enter HGL, if they are good enough. What's the point/sense of for instance dropping $150K and 200K teams out of HGL and take 130K and 60K teams in on some given Season (if two would be auto-relegated and two auto promoted)? No logic to me really, if the point is to to make it fair and as competitive as possible. Plus, the movement is too much if it's two teams per Season - it would be too penalizing for committed, and rule obeying current HGL teams.
Such HGL-PL would probably remain within sensible match limits, as it would also possible to use solely playoff-format in it (if so decided on given season), or mixed format (round robin and playoff).

Plus the "negative playoffs/relegation playoffs" shouldn't include lots of teams; I don't think such thing should exist at all, but if it would, absolutely two teams at absolute max. Why? Teams have already proven during RS which teams are better than others, and injuries would play too big of a part in a negative sense, as that could result in a relegation for team that would deserve to be playing on next Season as well.

Again, for the risk of repeat; quality over quantity. If people have been reading my posts on this and on earlier seasons, also these have been discussed in great detail.

As for your comment "Having a B-League also allows for growth to the HGL and shows BB that a larger HG community is manageable and that it warrants BB's support to grow.":
I don't see your point, as BB would manage it "automatically" anyway.. and they understand it anyway if they read these posts.

Now that I started writing, I already noticed answering to many more points that I intended to, but many of the points you presented still remain non-responded by me... But I must now start to do some work with league table updates.

All managers please note: I have asked couple of times if voting should be opened about possibly "opening" HGL through relegation/promotion scenario (1 team per Season), but I have received only 2 replies to that; I need to decide very soon if voting will be opened, or whether I'll make Commissioner's Decision ("CD") on that possible change.
So please all state your opinion on voting.

PS. It's possible, that the actual voting would turn out to be a pancake as well. If, say, 8 managers would vote, that would still be less than 50% of active managers, and if not everybody would even vote for same result, then the voting result would be questionable at best.

League tables updated after Round 11.

EOS-LMS provided us some excitement on Round 11 in this "coin flip match", and Estonians were able to beat their "neighbors" by 1 tiny point. But that's all that it takes - an advantage in EOS-LMS battle (should there be a draw only between them) has now been claimed by EOS on Season 6.

As for other results, at least to me they provided no surprise results - however, in some cases the differences were possibly slightly smaller than I would've expected, so that's always positive news (if one appreciates close results and exciting matches).

Last edited by Wagner at 6/1/2026 5:48:51 PM

vote is fine for me.

On one end I want to HGL be available for other managers but we have a lot of games now.
Maybe we can accept few teams and make only regular season /table without playoffs?
One big table decides?

I was thinking about dividing HGL season in two real seasons but salaries, training progress are disadvantages.

Good points - already so many games with 18 teams playing, and adding 1-2 more would only add to that (plus it would add to the token usage for teams not reaching playoffs, if that would matter to anyone - I guess not too many of us are short in tokens though, but if demand would highly exceed what is being provided to teams in a long run, I don't know at what stage we would end up with challenges with inadequate number of tokens on some teams, if ever).

Personally I think it would take away the excitement in a major way if Playoffs would be removed (and lousy start of the Season would already mean team has already lost all success chances, which would do bad things to motivation). Personally I'm not aware of any "serious" basketball league, that doesn't use Playoffs.. Frankly, I don't know how they still operate football/soccer with that "RS only" logic, but I guess that's due to tradition - it's certainly not the most exciting option as many teams have already lost chances early on on the season).
Having said that, nothing forces HGL to follow IRL methods, but my opinion still stands (as for Playoffs creating a chance for drama at the end of the Season).

I've also earlier considered creating a 1 game per week-schedule and sharing HGL Season over two BB seasons, but like you mentioned, it is definitely not without it's problems.
For instance, in addition to what you mentioned, if one is having a bad Season, it would "ruin" 2 BB seasons' worth of HGL play. And also if promotion/relegation method would be created (for use in HGL) then "the dry season" (for team dropping out of HGL due to relegation) would last 2 Seasons at least, instead of possibly 1.
And it's also not very logical intuitively (1 Season lasting 2 seasons), if you know what I mean...

The idea of ​​allowing other teams to join the HGL is interesting. I think it's fair that to join this league, teams must face the bottom-placed teams from each season. This is intended to make the HGL more competitive. [...] The bottom-placed team from the previous season faces the best of those aspiring to join the league. The best of the "outside" teams is decided in one-off matches on neutral ground.

Thank you for your response, SventraCanestri!

I'm glad to hear your share the view on fairness of that logic (of having to beat the worst HGL team, in order to open an entrance to HGL) - that would ensure the best teams are playing each Season. As for whether or not the match (HGL Relegation/Promotion Final) match should take on neutral court,or on the home court of better team (IRL team playing in higher league - in this case HGL - is often considered team that receives a home court advantage for the series if they face a relegation threat in that match series/match).
But regardless, you pretty much condensed what I had proposed before, so maybe it reaches more managers being more manageable post in terms of a character count.

Also, as for certain suggestion (yes, not your suggestion) about possible "relegation playoffs" (among 'then current HGL teams'), I don't think that should be a thing with HGL teams at all, for so many reasons, but also to minimize the effect of relegation threat to committed HGL teams, and also because in practice "the pecking order" is already determined by ORSR-rankings at the end of RS.
And, while some might disagree on this, I think it's still easier to find success when utilizing selling and buying-strategy within currently accepted HGL limits (as HGL policy is to allow certain trading currently).
So then to minimize the benefit of such potential actions (especially at the middle/at the end of the Season, if team is facing a relegation threat), and make sure it doesn't put (totally non-trading vs. trading) teams in different "level/starting point" in terms of being able to avoid relegation during those so called "relegation playoffs", no such playoffs should exist at all I think. As mentioned in reply to MrJ, also injuries would play too big of a part there. (Yes, I understand they affect normal Playoffs as well, but in Playoffs, teams haven't got "nothing to lose" compared to 'fighting for their life in relegation battle', as facing a relegation threat in HGL means team is playing for it's future (for next Season), which is a big thing.

Note: That doesn't mean worst team couldn't be subjected to relegation threat, but I'm talking about including multiple 'then current HGL-teams' being subjected to relegation threat. (With risk of repeat; I don't think multiple teams per Season should be subjected to that).
If one would have some "reserve players" out there in the world (sold to other BB teams) and would be in a relegation threat, they could simply try to gain an edge over non-trading teams by buying player back for the relegation playoffs, and that's exactly what I want to avoid in HGL, as relegation is in a way most critical thing team would face. (Of course this would be possible also for the worst HGL team or best HGL-PL team to utilize such strategy, but I hope you all understood my point).

Last edited by Wagner at 6/1/2026 6:40:34 PM