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HGL 11. round, season 5:

Best collective performance of the evening

Point: 144 : BC Rajaleidjad
Defense: 70 : KK Stihija
Tot. Rebound: 59 : Hårdboll
Off. Rebound: 26 : Hårdboll
Assist: 35 : KK Stihija
Steal: 8 : WiMaOlCa
Block: 25 : KK Stihija (new RS record!)

Personal best performances of the evening

Point: 44 : L. Duval (Elan Demars)
Tot. Rebound: 17 : A. Marroquín (Madrid Chotis)
Off. Rebound: 8 : D. Vikblad (Hårdboll)
Assist: 14 : Y. Lagneau (WiMaOlCa)
Steal: 3 : M. Bensala & V. Molina (WiMaOlCa)
Block: 11 : M. Kavazić (KK Stihija) (new RS record!)

The shooter: L. Duval (Elan Demars): 8 Three points scored

The best performer: M. Kavazić (KK Stihija): Rating: 19,5

Triple double: M. Kavazić (KK Stihija): 27-15-11 (P-R-B)

I think we all need to start thinking bigger.

1. If we want BB to seriously consider creating a space for HG teams, then we need to show them and allow for, HGL expansion.

2. If we are to expend, then we need to seriously consider and implement a structure that will cater for team expansion.
[....]
Obviously this is only a suggestion[....]

Hello MrJ,
I suspect that it would take an hour to hour and a half to write a proper reply (as there are so many points that I'd like to address), so I don't have time nor energy for that right now.

But long reply short (with lots of shortcuts taken here, so it's not a complete nor probably a final reply); as to your '1.', HGL doesn't need to become like regular BB league in order for BB to consider HGL as official 'add-on', I think. I suspect they would do it their own way nevertheless, not depending on what kind of format HGL uses. It would be nice if they'd consult us with all the details, but that's unlikely.

To your '2.', I think having a simple league, such as HGL Promotion League (for currently non-HGL teams) gives already teams a chance to play against 'non-HGL but still HG'-competition. I don't see how that would not be fair enough compromise. It wouldn't, however, be like 'a B division' or anything like that (as I'm not in favor of a two-tier league), but it would still:
A) let non-HGL HG teams interested in HGL participation play some games, and
B) give realistic chance for teams to enter HGL, if they are good enough. What's the point/sense of for instance dropping $150K and 200K teams out of HGL and take 130K and 60K teams in on some given Season (if two would be auto-relegated and two auto promoted)? No logic to me really, if the point is to to make it fair and as competitive as possible. Plus, the movement is too much if it's two teams per Season - it would be too penalizing for committed, and rule obeying current HGL teams.
Such HGL-PL would probably remain within sensible match limits, as it would also possible to use solely playoff-format in it (if so decided on given season), or mixed format (round robin and playoff).

Plus the "negative playoffs/relegation playoffs" shouldn't include lots of teams; I don't think such thing should exist at all, but if it would, absolutely two teams at absolute max. Why? Teams have already proven during RS which teams are better than others, and injuries would play too big of a part in a negative sense, as that could result in a relegation for team that would deserve to be playing on next Season as well.

Again, for the risk of repeat; quality over quantity. If people have been reading my posts on this and on earlier seasons, also these have been discussed in great detail.

As for your comment "Having a B-League also allows for growth to the HGL and shows BB that a larger HG community is manageable and that it warrants BB's support to grow.":
I don't see your point, as BB would manage it "automatically" anyway.. and they understand it anyway if they read these posts.

Now that I started writing, I already noticed answering to many more points that I intended to, but many of the points you presented still remain non-responded by me... But I must now start to do some work with league table updates.

All managers please note: I have asked couple of times if voting should be opened about possibly "opening" HGL through relegation/promotion scenario (1 team per Season), but I have received only 2 replies to that; I need to decide very soon if voting will be opened, or whether I'll make Commissioner's Decision ("CD") on that possible change.
So please all state your opinion on voting.

PS. It's possible, that the actual voting would turn out to be a pancake as well. If, say, 8 managers would vote, that would still be less than 50% of active managers, and if not everybody would even vote for same result, then the voting result would be questionable at best.

League tables updated after Round 11.

EOS-LMS provided us some excitement on Round 11 in this "coin flip match", and Estonians were able to beat their "neighbors" by 1 tiny point. But that's all that it takes - an advantage in EOS-LMS battle (should there be a draw only between them) has now been claimed by EOS on Season 6.

As for other results, at least to me they provided no surprise results - however, in some cases the differences were possibly slightly smaller than I would've expected, so that's always positive news (if one appreciates close results and exciting matches).

Last edited by Wagner at 6/1/2026 5:48:51 PM

vote is fine for me.

On one end I want to HGL be available for other managers but we have a lot of games now.
Maybe we can accept few teams and make only regular season /table without playoffs?
One big table decides?

I was thinking about dividing HGL season in two real seasons but salaries, training progress are disadvantages.

Good points - already so many games with 18 teams playing, and adding 1-2 more would only add to that (plus it would add to the token usage for teams not reaching playoffs, if that would matter to anyone - I guess not too many of us are short in tokens though, but if demand would highly exceed what is being provided to teams in a long run, I don't know at what stage we would end up with challenges with inadequate number of tokens on some teams, if ever).

Personally I think it would take away the excitement in a major way if Playoffs would be removed (and lousy start of the Season would already mean team has already lost all success chances, which would do bad things to motivation). Personally I'm not aware of any "serious" basketball league, that doesn't use Playoffs.. Frankly, I don't know how they still operate football/soccer with that "RS only" logic, but I guess that's due to tradition - it's certainly not the most exciting option as many teams have already lost chances early on on the season).
Having said that, nothing forces HGL to follow IRL methods, but my opinion still stands (as for Playoffs creating a chance for drama at the end of the Season).

I've also earlier considered creating a 1 game per week-schedule and sharing HGL Season over two BB seasons, but like you mentioned, it is definitely not without it's problems.
For instance, in addition to what you mentioned, if one is having a bad Season, it would "ruin" 2 BB seasons' worth of HGL play. And also if promotion/relegation method would be created (for use in HGL) then "the dry season" (for team dropping out of HGL due to relegation) would last 2 Seasons at least, instead of possibly 1.
And it's also not very logical intuitively (1 Season lasting 2 seasons), if you know what I mean...

The idea of ​​allowing other teams to join the HGL is interesting. I think it's fair that to join this league, teams must face the bottom-placed teams from each season. This is intended to make the HGL more competitive. [...] The bottom-placed team from the previous season faces the best of those aspiring to join the league. The best of the "outside" teams is decided in one-off matches on neutral ground.

Thank you for your response, SventraCanestri!

I'm glad to hear your share the view on fairness of that logic (of having to beat the worst HGL team, in order to open an entrance to HGL) - that would ensure the best teams are playing each Season. As for whether or not the match (HGL Relegation/Promotion Final) match should take on neutral court,or on the home court of better team (IRL team playing in higher league - in this case HGL - is often considered team that receives a home court advantage for the series if they face a relegation threat in that match series/match).
But regardless, you pretty much condensed what I had proposed before, so maybe it reaches more managers being more manageable post in terms of a character count.

Also, as for certain suggestion (yes, not your suggestion) about possible "relegation playoffs" (among 'then current HGL teams'), I don't think that should be a thing with HGL teams at all, for so many reasons, but also to minimize the effect of relegation threat to committed HGL teams, and also because in practice "the pecking order" is already determined by ORSR-rankings at the end of RS.
And, while some might disagree on this, I think it's still easier to find success when utilizing selling and buying-strategy within currently accepted HGL limits (as HGL policy is to allow certain trading currently).
So then to minimize the benefit of such potential actions (especially at the middle/at the end of the Season, if team is facing a relegation threat), and make sure it doesn't put (totally non-trading vs. trading) teams in different "level/starting point" in terms of being able to avoid relegation during those so called "relegation playoffs", no such playoffs should exist at all I think. As mentioned in reply to MrJ, also injuries would play too big of a part there. (Yes, I understand they affect normal Playoffs as well, but in Playoffs, teams haven't got "nothing to lose" compared to 'fighting for their life in relegation battle', as facing a relegation threat in HGL means team is playing for it's future (for next Season), which is a big thing.

Note: That doesn't mean worst team couldn't be subjected to relegation threat, but I'm talking about including multiple 'then current HGL-teams' being subjected to relegation threat. (With risk of repeat; I don't think multiple teams per Season should be subjected to that).
If one would have some "reserve players" out there in the world (sold to other BB teams) and would be in a relegation threat, they could simply try to gain an edge over non-trading teams by buying player back for the relegation playoffs, and that's exactly what I want to avoid in HGL, as relegation is in a way most critical thing team would face. (Of course this would be possible also for the worst HGL team or best HGL-PL team to utilize such strategy, but I hope you all understood my point).

Last edited by Wagner at 6/1/2026 6:40:34 PM

HGL 12. round, season 5:

Best collective performance of the evening

Point: 123 : Madrid Chotis
Defense: 62 : Madrid Chotis
Tot. Rebound: 62 : BC Rajaleidjad & Madrid Chotis
Off. Rebound: 21 : Wagner College
Assist: 35 : Hårdboll
Steal: 14 : Madrid Chotis & Lielupes Melnās Sirdis
Block: 18 : Madrid Chotis

Personal best performances of the evening

Point: 39 : A. Kotkovskis (Vilniaus „Vilkai“)
Tot. Rebound: 17 : G. Frosini (Virtus Portici)
Off. Rebound: 6 : J. Arminen (Wagner College) & V. Molina (WiMaOlCa)
Assist: 11 : M. Radomskis (Vilniaus „Vilkai“)
Steal: 5 : F. Forcas (Madrid Chotis)
Block: 7 : M. Bagunyà (Madrid Chotis)

The shooter: X. Tsattalios (Homegrown Kings): 9 Three points scored

The best performer: A. Kotkovskis (Vilniaus „Vilkai“): Rating: 18,5

Triple double: -

@all:
Please note the opened voting, and vote within 8 days, thank you. As you all have noticed, I've sent you BBMail about it. Please vote on Official Thread, and not preferably to my BBMail (in order to be able to keep better records of voting results).

I just updated "interested teams"-post (331392.83), and noticed that couple of theoretically interested teams have gone into serious shopping spree, making them currently seriously ineligible for HGL.

So it seems there would be 4-5 participants in our first HGL-PL (HGL Promotion/Participation League), depending on whether or not
A) San Fernando VR for some reason would want to sell their ineligible player to enter HGL-PL, and/or
B) if you guys are aware of some other interested team.

I should likely start contacting these interested teams shortly, to see who would like to use tokens for it this time, as there likely aren't open way for HGL Season 6 available through HGL-PL.
However, as I've just managed to get this part of the project done, as I mentioned, it hasn't been decided if this first HGL-PL also would serve as a valid result in terms of determining which team would get to challenge worst team of HGL after Season 6 (if that would be the result of the currently open voting, to create a one team per HGL Season relegation/promotion-scenario to HGL).

I'd like to hear many opinions on this as well, that should we use this result from first ever HGL-PL for Season 7 as well (unless new interested teams apply after start of HGL-PL, that would be interested in Season 7 participation), or only for potential withdrawal scenarios (to potentially replace teams to Season 6).

Remember: even if there wouldn't be direct open spots for Season 6, it has been the case so many times before, that team(s) withdraw "at the last minute", and for those scenarios it would always be good to have "an official pecking order" in which places would be offered to managers, and HGL-PL would provide us just that (in addition to giving managers a chance to play at least a game or few against HG opposition).

However, I'll remind every potential HGL candidate, that HGL-PL isn't just a short league into where one should participate just to be able to play 'few fun games' - the whole intention is to play because you'd be interested in participating to the Season you might be offered a place into. Usually that would mean the next Season only, but as mentioned, it will be announced later whether or not this first HGL-PL is used for determining "best non-HGL team on Season 6" as well (that gets access to the HGL Relegation/Promotion Final match against worst HGL team on Season 6, again, if such relegation/promotion-scenario will/would be taken into use in HGL; if not, then they would be first in line when looking for replacement teams, if some HGL managers would withdraw voluntarily).

For the benefit of the league though, it'd be good that it'd be possible to create a similar kind of ranking as our typical ORSR (Official Regular Season Rankings) in HGL, to rank HGL-PL teams clearly.
(With partly/complete playoff-format that would be more tricky, but still probably doable with some pre-planning and rules creating - however, if we don't have too many teams, then round robin could be preferable format anyway as it's 100% fair to all).

Last edited by Wagner at 6/6/2026 7:37:51 PM

Dinaid Bukva got injured for 14 days and my team lost 3 games in that period. Perhaps I would lose all 3 even with him on the team, but I was counting on only one loss, against Rajdersi :D

Well, I definitely profited from that, even though I would have liked to square up to you in full strength