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That's ok, now, everything has been done :)
Thx for the job.

That's ok, now, everything has been done :)
Thx for the job.

Alright, thanks for the corrections demars!

As I mentioned before, LA-LennuK. (BC Eos) has continued his tradition and calculated and formed us some HGL data and top5-tables. On Season 4 posts were also published on HGL "main" Thread, and those can be found from here: (329501.50); please see also another post below that linked one.

So big thanks once again LA-LennuK., here are your tables/comparisons/data that you provided for publishing for HGL Season 5:

Team: Salary S4 -> Salary S5 (in 1000 $) | Salary change (%) | Age S4 -> Age S5 (y) | Age change (y)

Wagner College (WAG): 349 -> 357 | +2,3% | 29,4 -> 30,4 | +1,0
Les Gueux du Marais (LGM): 278 -> 271 | -2,5% | 29,1 -> 30,1 | +1,0
Elan Demars (ED): 340 -> 372 | +9,4% | 29,3 -> 30,3 | +1,0
BC Eos (EOS): 432 -> 613* | +41,9% | 23,8 -> 24,3 | +0,5
Vilniaus „Vilkai“ (VIV): 430 -> 463 | +7,7% | 26,3 -> 27,3 | +1,0
Madrid Chotis (MAD): 279 -> 304 | +9,0% | 26,5 -> 27,6 | +1,1
WiMaOlca (WMO): 329 -> 357 | +8,5% | 26,9 -> 27,9 | +1,0
Rajdersi (RAJ): 447 -> 493 | +10,3% | 27,5 -> 28,5 | +1,0
Freccia Azzurra (FRE): 132 -> 173 | +31,1% | 24,4 -> 23,5 | -0,9
Hårdboll (HB): 444 -> 425 | -4.3% | 32,1 -> 31,4 | -0,7
Lielupes Melnās Sirdis (LMS): 526 -> 628 | +19,4% | 24,0 -> 25,0 | +1,0
Alanurmon Rikkaat (ALA): 164 -> 183 | +11,6% | 25,0 -> 24,9 | -0,1
Virtus Portici (VPO): 460 -> 418* | -9,1% | 31,0 -> 29,8 | -1,2
KK Stihija (KKS): 595 -> 626 | +5,2% | 27,4 -> 28,4 | +1,0
Club Trouville (TRO): 288 -> 304 | +5,6% | 28,6 -> 29,6 | +1,0
Vindicta (VDT): 258 -> 276 | +7,0% | 25,5 -> 26,5 | +1,0
Homegrown Kings (HGK): 140 -> 208* | +48,6% | 23,0 -> 24,6 | +1,6
BC Rajaleidjad (BCR): 398 -> 412 | +3,5% | 29,6 -> 29,0 | -0,6


* Denotes teams that have received salary benefits from transfers in S4:
EOS: Total benefit of 121K; purchase of T.Noorhani (130K), 9th player A.Kanter (9K)
VPO: Total benefit of 1K; purchase of S.Pinga (19K), 9th player P.Fedele (18K)
HGK: Total benefit of 49K; purchase of X.Tsattalios, 9th player L.Walshe (7K)

Even more HGL Season 5 comparison data tables, made by LA-LennuK. (BC Eos):

Now for the top-5 categories.
The "*" still denotes the three teams with salary benefits from transfers (EOS, VPO and HGK):

Top 5 teams of top-8 players’ salaries in Season 5:
1. LMS (628K)
2. KKS (626K)
3. EOS* (613K)
4. RAJ (493K)
5. VIV (463K)

Top 5 teams of top-8 players’ salaries in Season 5 (excluding transfers of S4):
1. LMS (628K)
2. KKS (626K)
3. RAJ (493K)
4. EOS* (492K)
5. VIV (463K)

Top 5 of oldest teams (based on top-8 average ages) in Season 5:
1. HB (31,4 y)
2. WAG (30,4 y)
3. ED (30,3 y)
4. LGM (30,1 y)
5. VPO (29,8 y)

Top 5 of youngest teams (based on top-8 average ages) in Season 5:
1. FRE (23,5 y)
2. EOS (24,3 y)
3. HGK (24,6 y)
4. ALA (24,9 y)
5. LMS (25,0 y)

Top 5 of teams that increased the top-8 players’ salary most between Season 4 and Season 5 in absolute salary (including transfers):
1. EOS* (181K/41,9%)
2. LMS (102K/19,4%)
3. HGK* (68K/48,6%)
4. RAJ (46K/10,3%)
5. FRE (41K/31,1%)

Top 5 of teams that increased the top-8 players’ salary most between Season 4 and Season 5 in relative salary (including transfers):
1. HGK* (48,6%/68K)
2. EOS* (41,9%/181K)
3. FRE (31,1%/41K)
4. LMS (19,4%/102K)
5. ALA (11,6%/19K)

Top 5 of teams that increased the top-8 players’ salary most between Season 4 and Season 5 in absolute salary by training only (excluding transfers):
1. LMS (102K/19,4%)
2. EOS* (60K/13,9%)
3. RAJ (46K/10,3%)
4. FRE (41K/31,1%)
5. VIV (33K/7,7%)

Top 5 of teams that increased the top-8 players’ salary most between Season 4 and Season 5 in relative salary by training only (excluding transfers):
1. FRE (31,1%/41K)
2. LMS (19,4%/102K)
3. EOS* (13,9%/60K)
4. HGK* (13,6%/19K)
5. ALA (11,6%/19K)

Top 5 of teams getting younger (or less old, based on top-8 average ages) between Season 4 and Season 5:
1. VPO (-1,2 y)
2. FRE (-0,9 y)
3. HB (-0,7 y)
4. BCR (-0,6 y)
5. ALA (-0,1 y)

Team "power/value" in S5:

1. EOS*: 25,2 [K & per y]
2. LMS: 25,1
3. KKS: 22,0
4. RAJ: 17,3
5. VIV: 17,0
6. BCR: 14,2
7. VPO*: 14,0
8. HB: 13,5
9. WMO: 12,8
10.ED: 12,3
11. WAG: 11,7
12. MAD: 11,0
13. VDT: 10,4
14. TRO: 10,3
15. LGM: 9,0
16. HGK*: 8,5
17. FRE: 7,4
18. ALA: 7,3

Note/explanation (from previous Seasons) on "power/value"-comparison by LennuK.:

I tried to think of other interesting parameters other than just salary and age, which would be interesting to monitor over the seasons. So, I looked into the relationship between the ages and salaries directly [...]
So, I looked at the parameter of top-8 salary sum divided by the top-8 average age to get a general parameter or a “power” ranking showing the salary to age ratio (in 1000$ per year of the average age), which could probably even be termed “value” of the players on the roster of a specific team. This by no means determines the actual value of the players in the top-8 of different teams, but is interesting to look at, when considering that a high salary and a young age are associated with a player that is actually valuable; hence the higher the described ratio is, the higher the “value” of a player would/should be. If you think such information could be interesting too, here comes the list of the HGL teams in Season 3 in the order of more to less “valuable” players in the top-8 considering their salary to age ratio.

Further calculations for HGL Season 5, made by LA-LennuK. (thanks once again!).
LA-LennuK.: please don't hesitate to correct my explanations LA-LennuK. if you find them being not correct, because you're the creator of these tables and know them "from inside out".

Team S4 top8-salary -> S5 total top8-salary - (S5 top8-"training salary"=without transfers on S4) - [Overall "training salary"= S5 top8-salary without transferred players at all]
Wagner College (WAG): 349 -> 357, (357), [357]
Les Gueux du Marais (LGM): 278 -> 271, (271), [271]
Elan Demars (ED): 340 -> 372, (372), [372]
BC Eos (EOS): 432 -> 613, (492), [442]
Vilniaus „Vilkai“ (VIV): 430 -> 463, (463), [437]
Madrid Chotis (MAD): 279 -> 304, (304), [304]
WiMaOlca (WMO): 329 -> 357, (357), [357]
Rajdersi (RAJ): 447 -> 493, (493), [488]
Freccia Azzurra (FRE): 132 -> 173, (173), [173]
Hårdboll (HB): 444 -> 425, (425), [425]
Lielupes Melnās Sirdis (LMS): 526 -> 628, (628), [458]
Alanurmon Rikkaat (ALA): 164 -> 183, (183), [183]
Virtus Portici (VPO): 460 -> 418, (417), [153]
KK Stihija (KKS): 595 -> 626, (626), [626]
Club Trouville (TRO): 288 -> 304, (304), [304]
Vindicta (VDT): 258 -> 276, (276), [276]
Homegrown Kings (HGK): 140 -> 208, (159), [159]
BC Rajaleidjad (BCR): 398 -> 412, (412), [412]


So as for above table, published with his permission, here's how LA-LennuK. explained them to me:

The way I meant for these salaries to be interpreted:
1. Salary in bold. This is the added salary of the 8 highest salary players for each team at the beginning of the season regardless of their transfer history, as we have done it for the previous seasons.
2. Salary in round brackets. This is the salary that should represent the training effect from the previous season only. So this is the added salary of the 8 highest salary players, who were in their respective rosters for the salary calculations in S4. For every player that was not in its current roster at the beginning of the previous season, the player(s) below him in the salary ranking move up accordingly, so that the calculations encompass 8 players. For S5, only 3 teams have differing salaries: EOS, due to purchase of T.Noorhani, VPO due to purchase of S.Pinga, HGK due to purchase X.Tsattalios. All these players are currently in the top-8 and were not part of their rosters on the first gameday of HGL S4, thus not attributing to the pure training effect on the salary. So the label could be something like: S5 salaries without considering players transferred during S4.
3. Salary in italics and square brackets. This is the added salary of the 8 highest salary players, who have never been transferred and have stayed only with the club that drafted them. This ignores all of the purchased ex-draftees in the calculations, replacing them with correspondingly many players from the lower ranks of the salary list. For example, VPO has purchased (partly a long time ago) 11 players currently on their roster, so for every one of them, a player from the lower ranks is moved up, so that their 8th best salary in this calculation is only 301$ (E.Iacuzzo).

And to further clear it up, he continued:

So the third* number is also the (top-8) salary at the beginning of S5, as the second* one is, where I have removed the potential increase in the salary through transfers. So the S4 part in the title addressed that the transfers were made through S4, but otherwise it's still the S5 salary.

*=tables edited, so had to change these from original text

As for further explanation on how to interpret this above salary table, due to BB message character limitations, please see next post.


Last edited by Wagner at 5/12/2026 8:19:34 AM

This post further opens up the logic behind the above post salary comparison table, through an example (and message) provided by LA-LennuK., and naturally this as well is published with his consent:

Okay, let me try to make an example here based on my team. So at the beginning of S4 my top-8 salary was 432K, which at the beginning of S5 is now 613K. The salary in round brackets basically simulates, what my top-8 salary would have been, if I hadn't bought T.Noorhani (130K) towards the end of last season, so i subtract 130K from my total top-8 salary: 613K-130K=483K. Though, the result from this subtraction would now represent a "top-7 salary", as I completely removed one player (Noorhani) from the equation, so I fill up that salary with the current 9th best player, who would have been the 8th salarywise, if I hadn't purchased Noorhani. This is A.Kanter with 9K salary. So now I add his salary to the previous "top-7 salary": 483K+9K=492K. In that way I have completely removed purchased players in S4 from the top-8 salary calculations and hereby ignoring any salary benefit that might have occurred through transfers in S4. Also, the pure training effect on salary is shown.

In your case((#)), as you did not get any transfers during S4, both the second* and the third* salary categories are identical, as your "salary benefit through transfers" would be 0. Or in other words, the salary effect through training for you is the "full" salary.

((#))='In your case' refers to my team, WAG (Wagner College) in a previous post.
*=I had to change LA-LennuK.'s writings so that it refers to correct numbers, as table was slightly changed after this message.

Last edited by Wagner at 5/12/2026 8:25:40 AM

Just like on last Season, I formed again a top8-salary table of all HGL teams on Season 5, based on previous data provided by LennuK. (and have now edited it due to 1 transfer by KKS).

In this case I made an attempt to make table little bit more visual, and also added familiar "league table lines" (after 4th and 12th teams) to this post, so that we could easily compare at the end of Regular Season who has exceeded expectations, if we only look at top8-salary as a predictor of future success (which it of course solely isn't, but that's still about the best value we do have available as people are understandingly not willing to expose their players' skill point numbers).

In a table below, I've given team one line per each starting $20K of wages. So for instance a team with $120K salary would receive 6 bars of line, while team with salary $152K would receive 7, and so on.

Visual top8-salary table of Season 5 HGL-teams:

-------------------------------Lielupes Melnās Sirdis (LMS) $628K
------------------------------BC Eos (EOS) 613
----------------------------KK Stihija (KKS) 566 #1
------------------------Rajdersi (RAJ) 493
-----------------------Vilniaus „Vilkai“ (VIV) 463
---------------------Hårdboll (HB) 425
--------------------Virtus Portici (VPO) 418
--------------------BC Rajaleidjad (BCR) 412
------------------Elan Demars (ED) 372
-----------------WiMaOlca (WMO) 357
-----------------Wagner College (WAG) 357
---------------Madrid Chotis (MAD) 304
======================================
---------------Club Trouville (TRO) 304
-------------Vindicta (VDT) 276
-------------Les Gueux du Marais (LGM) 271
----------Homegrown Kings (HGK) 208
---------Alanurmon Rikkaat (ALA) 183
--------Freccia Azzurra (FRE): 173

#1=KK Stihija's Season 5 starting salary was $626K (salary on May 12th 2026 $566160; position in table changed from 2nd to 3rd due to transfer on May 11th, 2026).



Publishing of this following, new-to-HGL - table was inspired by this new data provided by LennuK. in earlier posts, that considers teams' top8-salary values without re-purchased players.

Visual top8-salary table without re-purchased players, of Season 5 HGL-teams:

-------------------------KK Stihija (KKS) [$566K] #1
------------------------Rajdersi (RAJ) [488]
---------------------Lielupes Melnās Sirdis (LMS) [458]
---------------------BC Eos (EOS) [442]
---------------------Vilniaus „Vilkai“ (VIV) [437]
---------------------Hårdboll (HB) [425]*
--------------------BC Rajaleidjad (BCR) [412]*
------------------Elan Demars (ED) [372]*
-----------------WiMaOlca (WMO) [357]*
-----------------Wagner College (WAG) [357]*
---------------Madrid Chotis (MAD) [304]*
---------------Club Trouville (TRO) [304]*
================================
-------------Vindicta (VDT) [276]*
-------------Les Gueux du Marais (LGM) [271]*
---------Alanurmon Rikkaat (ALA) [183]*
--------Freccia Azzurra (FRE): [173]*
-------Homegrown Kings (HGK) [159]
-------Virtus Portici (VPO) [153]

*=transfers/salary benefit doesn't affect this top8-salary value
#1=KK Stihija's Season 5 starting salary was $626K (salary on May 12th 2026 $566160)


Interesting takes on this second salary comparison-table (without re-purchased players)?

- Lot more even lines among teams, and some positions do change (some even dramatically), if we only consider no re-purchased players.

- Also, a many time HGL-champion, VPO - a team that still to this day hasn't managed to lose a single HGL match, is at the very bottom of the table when considering top8-salaries with no re-purchased players counted in top8.

Last edited by Wagner at 5/12/2026 9:29:06 AM

As you've all noticed, we have the same lineup of 18 teams on our HGL roster on Season 5 as there were on Season 4.

Some of the teams were (at least possibly) interested to join already to Season 5, yet decision was made to restrict the amount of work that's needed to make this league work and keep the level of the work at the usual level (including being able to maintain team stats, etc.), and in that sense there's no relief on my part.

So, while this is not urgent by any means right now, I already wanted to share one possible scenario (below) on possibly enabling new teams to join HGL should there not be any teams "voluntarily"/by their own decision leaving HGL at the end of the Season X (automatically freeing up space for new teams).

This solution has been presented in one form already earlier and is far from optimal, but I'll present it as probably the best solution, chosen from the list of of options of which no one is perfect.

I think, if we'd proceed into this, that voting on it might be needed (if change would/should occur or not), and it needs to be decided how large chunk of the votes need to be "positive for change" in order for change to take place.


**********

So, as I've mentioned several times (I believe) on many posts, participating/relegated teams-situation (if applied in the forthcoming Season(s) could be handled like this:

1. Interested teams (teams willing to participate to HGL on next Season would participate in very short (maximum one match against each other) HGL Participation League/Promotion League/ HGL Play-In League (HGLPL, HGL-PIL, or something like that).

Other option, if there are 2, 4, or 8 interested teams, would be to make worst team (in top8-salaries) face best team, and so on, and make this a Playoff-format, and approach as usual (mentioned below). This, on the other hand, would be bad in terms of continuation, as this only works with even number of teams. Of course combined option would also be possible (Round Robin and Playoffs for even number of best teams of Round Robin league), but it'd probably be unnecessary many matches to decide often times the somewhat obvious result.

2. Then from that, the best team of HGLPL (or HGL-PIL) would face worst team of HGL in a single Promotion/Relegation match, which would decide which team will play in HGL next Season.

This way there would be way for someone to enter HGL, but they would need to simultaneously prove they're better than currently the worst team in HGL, which would be only logical "requirement" - many IRL leagues work like this too (even though in even more IRL cases one will be relegated directly/without relegation matches, and the second worst of the main league will have to go through relegation match-stage to see if they will be able to remain on top league next season as well). However, as I'm feeling uneasy/mostly reluctant to relegate (in this case, kick them to next Seasons's HGLPL instead of HGL) any of the current, committed teams, I'd prefer to keep the amount of relegated teams as low as ever possible.

************


Again, if anyone is wondering, no such decisions (of possible relegation possibility in the future) have not been made, nor have we even decided if voting about it will open.


This change, I think, would be so dramatic though, that it probably shouldn't be implemented in a middle of any Season, just like demars (Elan Demars) earlier said.

Therefore if such proposition would be for instance voted and accepted, it would only apply to Season 6 (and beyond, if so decided later), in other words making it possible for teams to join on Season 7 if they can beat the worst team of Season 6 (based on Official Regular Season Rankings).

Like I wrote, this is not something that needs to be decided or even discussed now/in a rush, but I already wanted to continue the discussion that was briefly started at least during Season 4 (if not a lot earlier).

It's a wide question, and needs to be given lots of consideration.

Meaning also, that in one given max. 4000 character reply it's not possible to easily handle all sides and aspects of it, so everybody please consider that when reading my replies.

I'll quickly mention couple of things though, and hopefully can hold all the strings at the correct order in my mind while doing so (thinking/considering all aspects of the whole issue simultaneously) so that there wouldn't be critical thinking errors in my logic (in this reply).

My points/thoughts now:

1. Likely 18 would be the cap, while this hasn't been totally decided. Like mentioned, even a change that seems on paper marginal (from 18 to 20) it does already add the match amount and work load.

2. At 18 teams we are on the verge of having too little amount of teams entering Playoffs each year. If change would occur (20 teams instead of 18), then it'd probably be necessary to consider changing the amount of teams entering to Playoffs at least ever so slightly (from 12 to 14), which would likely mean that only two top2-teams would enter Second Round as guaranteed teams (instead of 4). That would, on the other hand, change dynamics in Playoffs to some extent, as weaker teams would be able to enter, so some of the First and Second Round Playoff matches would be "formal" (more or less only theoretical chance for underdog to win).

3. To begin with, I think 1 team movement (relegation/promotion) is something that I'd see as optimal maximum, as otherwise it could have serious negative effect to perfectly committed and fine managers, who would like to continue in HGL; as I said, I feel reluctant to kick anyone out even for one Season (let alone two teams), but this is something to consider (as I mentioned in previous message) to give at least a narrow way for someone new to enter (given that no current teams "give away" their place in HGL voluntarily).

4. As for relegation possibility, I think that's what it should remain: a possibility. Meaning that you wouldn't auto-relegate and nobody would auto-promote (at least as long as we have 1 team that would face relegation threat) by being best team in HGL-PL or worst in HGL. That meaning, that best team of HGL Promotion League (HGL-PL, or something like that) would have to win worst team in HGL in order to be able to play in HGL next Season.
This would also support my worry in above "3.", as only if your current HGL team would be weaker than best HGL-PL team, then you'd be relegated.

5. I think we have "2,5-3 teams" announced of their interest. As for salaries, this bit stronger Aussie team that you mentioned of, and then two clearly weaker teams of which one seems to be more sure about their interest, and another one was more like "maybe/might be interested", if my memory serves me.

So for the sake of example on above "3. and 4.", let's assume that we'd have a system in use that I proposed (in A&B), and let's take three scenarios, in which first
(A) these 3 teams would be interested and in
(B) only two weakest teams would be interested to join, and in
(C) auto relegation would be in use.

A) (likely) Aussie team would be best of HGL-PL, and would face somewhat similar top8-salaries in HGL promotion/relegation final match; winner of match would play in HGL next Season. Sounds maybe decent enough to me.

B) either one of two weakest teams would be crowned winner of HGL-PL and would face worst HGL team that's way higher in top8-salaries, and HGL team would likely win that HGL promotion/relegation final match, and would remain in HGL for next Season. Sounds fair to me.

C) either one of two weakest teams would be crowned winner of HGL-PL and would auto promote, even though they are way weaker than worst current HGL team, and current HGL team would be relegated nevertheless without given a chance (match) to defend their place in HGL. This is something I really wouldn't want to see.

I am glad to see that you have put time and effort into this dilemma, Wagner. Having a former Aussie team-mate, Tassie Devils keen to join the HGL (reinforced only days ago in a bbmail), means that I am keen to see how we can address this issue.

Having read everything you have noted above, Wagner, I would propose something slightly different but still within your proposal. However, my proposal is based on the answer to this question: is 18 teams optimal or is 20 possible as a final cap for number of teams competing in the HGL?

My following proposal incorporates what you have outlined above with a small change that I think will also address the 'dramatic' impact you correctly highlighted would occur if we implemented your system immediately.

My Proposal:

1. We expand the HGL to 20 teams prior to the start of next season, Season 6 and cap it at 20. That is, the HGL will never have more than 20 teams ever going forward. If this isn't optimal, then 18 remains the cap.

See, TBH actually 16 would be way more optimal number of teams instead of 18, let alone 20. Compared to 16, there is now:
A) added workload (more teams to manage but especially more RS matches)
B) we have to play RS on 2 Sundays as well (20 teams would force 2 more RS Rounds, right, so on 4 Sundays=four 3 game weeks=way too much already?!?)
C) makes amount of teams reaching Playoffs slightly more non-optimal to my liking (vs. on 16 teams league).

However, please note that while I'd see 16 more suitable in almost all ways, I'm not currently driving a change to 16 (instead of 18) as there seems to be demand for at least 18 teams.

Please note also, that while nobody has left their withdrawal notice yet, there's no guarantee that, say, 1-4 teams would't do so before the announcement deadline already this Season, which would free up automatically places for new teams even without HGL-PL (or similar), but of course I don't hope that would happen.

[...]
Allowing for 20 teams, essentially adding 2 more teams at the end of this season, will provide everyone (current and future) teams with a fair amount of time to prepare for the upcoming changers to the HGL in Season 7. It will also allow for 2 teams to enter as, unless I am mistaken, we only have 2 teams ready to join?

2. We make an announcement (ensure everyone knows) sometime this season that a PIL will take effect prior to the start of Season 7 and that 2* teams will be relegated to be replaced by 2 new teams.

3. Prior to the start of Season 7, all teams wishing to join the HGL (whether previous members or otherwise) need to compete in the PIL to secure one of 2 spots. That is, 2 teams will be 'relegated' from the HGL at the end of Season 6, and 2 new teams (best performers of the PIL) will enter.

As for announcing things early, I'm in the same boat with you (and demars, and probably with most of us).

I wouldn't prefer to make an announcement in a middle of Season, that 'oh please note that if you're at the bottom 2 this Season, you're going to be relegated'. So just as also demars and yourself mentioned, it's good to inform managers beforehand, and that's why I started this conversation this early, and also mentioned the same sort of schedule for possible entering for new teams in my previous messages (earliest on Season 7 there could be possibility to enter through promotion/relegation match).

Again, as mentioned in my previous message, I don't think it would be fair though to "kick out"committed HGL managers who comply with all the rules, and could be even stronger than HGL Promotion League-teams, by the means of auto-relegation (without the chance to defend their place in HGL promotion/relegation final match).

In this case, all potentially new HGL teams could check out the salary-posts of HGL, to see at what stage their team is in in terms of winning worst HGL team.