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Suuret Muinaiset has not logged in since 5th of Dec.
ED-SUM hasn't been organized yet due to that.
I hope SUM logs in very quickly so that we don't have to deal with very problematic scenario.
Ultimately, of course, penalties haven't been determined for this.
But if SUM doesn't log in soon and arrange match, then it's easy to give forfeit win to ED.

I don't have other contact information of SUM. If anyone has seen him in Discord, if he uses it, please alert him.

We´ll have to keep on dealing with this situation soon, probably today and tomorrow...

demars, please be aware that you need to set your lineups at the last minute in a worst case.

I'm aware, but...

What would be easier to log at the last moment and make his lineup, but I couldn't...

I think I'm gonna change my automatic lineup...

I'm aware, but...

What would be easier to log at the last moment and make his lineup, but I couldn't...

I think I'm gonna change my automatic lineup...

That is a strong point demars and I totally understand it, and while I'm perfectly aware of that possibility, it doesn't reduce your frustration on this, which is understandable. While that wouldn't likely bring you comfort either, I'll still let you know that I have been writing him so to me he isn't at all that kind of person who would do it on purpose (should he log in at the last minute and be able to set up a lineup, and you wouldn't) - however, even knowing that is not something that would bring you to a fair position, so I definitely see your point.

These kind of situations are frustrating to me as well (even though my team isn't affected, and even though that might not bring you any comfort). There is enough going on in my life (and are running late in some HGL related tasks as well), so that I don't find it amusing to use time and energy for tasks of this kind.

These kind of situations are the kind of ones that we still not have an easy solution (often time it could be word against word), however, like I said if he doesn't log in at all and accept match, it's a no brainer (forfeit, and you get to proceed to Second Round automatically).

However, if SUM does log in and does accept your PU match offer in time, we are also in tricky situation, as technically you don't have as much time to set up your custom lineup as you should (as stated in the rules). (Problem with rules is, that the penalty for it currently is more or less "please don't do this, or we have to try to figure out if we need to start enforcing penalties to stop it").

As it stands, I'm a bit in between the tree and the bark (if he logs in and accepts in time), given that clear penalties haven't been determined. (As far as that goes, we can discuss and if needed, vote, if we'd for example change rule so that if team hasn't even logged in during the period between previous match day and the moment they ought to send/accept challenge, then they'd suffer a forfeit loss - however, I do not necessarily enjoy the idea to babysit details like this daily as that's exactly the opposite what I'm trying to achieve in the future as repeated later).

So in a way this lies partly on your hands, demars, if you´re willing to be the gentleman who accepts his mistake in not accepting PU on time(?). Say, if you'd lose this match and claim it was due to this lineup thing, then we'd have big dilemma.

One of the partial solutions, just as you well pointed out, is that you change your "automatic/default lineup", so that it'll be used if you don't set another lineup.
This is actually a great "pro-tip" from you for future situations like this (should they occur), but as we all agree, we shouldn't be facing such situations at all in the first place.

It could be necessary to evaluate this rule again in a light of possible penalties forced in the future, in the case it can be clearly seen that for instance manager hasn't even logged in until it's already too late to accept (or send, if they'd be home team) a PU match challenge. This, on the other hand, provides couple of irritating/frustrating side effects:
A) It´s up to me to check out managers´team pages more or less daily to see if they´ve logged in (just opposite what I'm trying to achieve, as for the longevity it´s important to be able to have trust that things roll as they should roll, almost without intervention from Commissioners´part)
B) It could be the case, that manager has logged in, and that there are two words against each other. This is already mentioned in rules as one of the possible problematic scenarios, and even before establishing HGL nobody was able to provide perfect (or even truly workable) solution for this, despite multiple attempts to ask about managers´opinion on this dilemma.

Last edited by Wagner at 12/13/2025 7:19:37 PM

That's an unfortunate situation, especially as SUM are not continuing in the HGL from the coming season. I think the easiest would be to set a time frame deadline, e.g., a challenge has to be sent and accepted 24h before the match, otherwise it's a forfeit to the manager not challenging/accepting the match. Currently it is a really tedious situation with this particular PO match, as you described Wagner, and I believe we should introduce a stronger rule beginning from next season. I think a 24-hour-before deadline is quite reasonable too, as managers have an entire week to complete the match planning in this case.

Well, I've just modified my default line-up. I just hope that I won't forget to change it for my next (league) game ^^

That's an unfortunate situation, especially as SUM are not continuing in the HGL from the coming season. I think the easiest would be to set a time frame deadline, e.g., a challenge has to be sent and accepted 24h before the match, otherwise it's a forfeit to the manager not challenging/accepting the match. Currently it is a really tedious situation with this particular PO match, as you described Wagner, and I believe we should introduce a stronger rule beginning from next season. I think a 24-hour-before deadline is quite reasonable too, as managers have an entire week to complete the match planning in this case.

We can consider adding a more strict rule for these situations.

The problem with clear 24h guideline is though, that while people are for the most part (maybe not for the First Round of Playoff) being able to conclude themselves who they are supposed to meet/challenge on the next Round of Playoffs, the official Playoff matchup post won't be updated at the certain interval each and every time.

So for instance, if official Playoff schedule would be published on one occassion on Sunday at 8PM, and on another occassion on Monday 11AM, then where would the clock start running? People would never know the exact time when this "timer" would be started (and I wouldn't prefer to tie myself to HGL in a way that I have to be around at certain time on every given occassion, but rather make it so that there´s certain amount of flexibility, as there are already lots of tasks that I can't flexibly schedule out during Playoffs - if we take today as an exceptional example, I had to change my whole day of plans due to this unorganized match issue).

So it would be easier to start, say, a 24h, 48h, etc. counter from one given moment that always happens at the same time, but now it doesn't. So as you all know, now the rule goes like this:

- Due to the need to arrange match every week during playoffs, it is important that managers send challenge at the latest on Thursday (note: this time frame could be changed during Season 2), so that team accepting challenge has enough time to accept it.
Remember: last regular season match will take place on Monday at 14.30, or 02.30PM EET Normal Time, (15.30, or 03.30PM EET DST, Daylight Savings Time, a.k.a. Summer Time), so after that match:
A) during rest of season there will be 3 days time to send the Playoff match challenge (Mon->Thu; during Playoffs Sun->Wed)
B) there´s (about) 2 days time to accept match challenge (if it's been sent at the latest possible time, on Wednesday, it needs to be accepted on Friday at the latest, before your designated HGL match time).[..]

What did you exactly mean by "a challenge has to be sent and accepted 24h before the match, otherwise it's a forfeit to the manager not challenging/accepting the match"?
So that challenging and accepting is finished 24h before match?
Who would be there always exactly 24h before the match to report? It could be word vs. word.. And I wouldn't want to make this a "prove by screenshot"-league, also because theoretically those could also be modified.

So the thing is, while I theoretically agree that 24 could be enough time, I've tried to stretch this organizing window as wide as possible for the both participants, as I've seen in practice that we still sometimes have occassional problems with even with these (lot wider than 24h) time frames given for both teams currently.

Solving this by delivering a lot more forfeits is one way, but so far I've tried to stay away from that as much as possible...

But again, we could often be in a situation where there could be word against word (as for instance BB doesn't give us any login data information in addition to "recent login" data, and even with that data, it doesn´t give time of clock when that happened, and of course doesn´t let us know what actions manager took or didn't take).

Solving this by delivering a lot more forfeits is one way, but so far I've tried to stay away from that as much as possible...

To quote myself, this could sometimes be needed to discourage an unwanted behavior, to make league fair for all, and also to make league more manageable in terms of Commissioner duties (restrict the need of being around at exact given times, to prove if something did exist/happen, or whether it didn't).

However, I believe we already would've had one (more) forfeit last Season, should we have been implementing a clear, strict rule with that (and surely more would be coming in future Seasons, given that often times history is the best predictor of likelyhood of future events). Having said that, I don't say implementing stricter rules on this would be bad thing, but we just need to find a proper balance, and figure out how to solve this so that there aren't word against word-situations.

While "clear as a day"-sort of rule set (including penalties) hasn't been yet determined for this exact case (for previously mentioned, good reasons), I think it's necessary for me to say this now:

As it's now 3.30PM EET, and HGL Season 3 First Round Playoff matches have started, and neither of ED or SUM have provided a match link, I have an unfortunate obligation/duty to inform that Elan Demars (ED) will be given "a free ticket" to Second Round of Season 3 Playoffs due to SUM being handed a 0-50 forfeit loss in their First Round match against ED on Season 3 Playoffs.
This is because in this case it's easy to determine, that it's due to SUM not being logged in since 5th of December. Yes, I couldn´t prove that ED had sent a challenge (for the record though, I believe he has, just as he said he had done). However, as we can see, even that is irrelevant in this decision, as match couldn't have been accepted by SUM due to not logging in, so this is the ultimate reason for this decision.

I know these are never nice decisions, especially given the fact that I mentioned, that I've been writing with SUM manager throughout these HGL seasons and he seems like a very good, friendly, and considerate person. We need to remember, that while this would've been the most important match of his Season, and while I have been "complaining" about consequences of this unorganized match, it´s not the end of the world (and we don't know what's happening in anyones´ life at any given time), and after end of the day, Buzzerbeater is just a game and real life is something that matters most.

Having said that doesn't of course mean that I'd downplay the importance of BB and HGL, they are important to me as well just as I'm sure they're important to many of us HGL managers, but it's good to keep the big picture in mind when discussing BB/HGL related topics, when considering what's genuinely important and what's not.

There's no doubt in my mind, that conversation over this (possible rule change, and different aspects that are related to it) will be continued...

There's no doubt in my mind, that conversation over this (possible rule change, and different aspects that are related to it) will be continued...

The problem/challenges with time frame (to challenge/accept) prior/during Playoffs can be broken down as follows for instance:

1. Publication of next Round Playoff schedule is not automatic/set in stone.

2. Let's assume, for the purpose of an example, that schedule is posted within 24 hours of previous played matches.

3. Current rule goes "time to send challenge from Sun to Wed". As said, it many instances (maybe not on Playoffs First Round) all can see who they are supposed to play on next Round and can send challenge themselves, even without consulting official schedule. So again for the purpose of an example, let's say they do the work themselves and see who is supposed to meet (and challenge) who on next Round and send challenges according to "0-hour rule" (challenge cock starts to run "0 hours after previous Playoff match has ended").

4. In this case, challenger team would have 3 days time to challenge, from Sunday early evening until Wednesday

5. Match challenge receiver would have 2 days time to accept challenge from the last possible challenge send-time, in practice meaning from Wednesday to Friday.

6. Now, even if challenge receiver would accept challenge no earlier than on Friday, it would still leave challenger team about 2 days to accept challenge. (Well, theoretically only about 1,5 days, if receiver would accept challenge late in the Friday evening - these deadlines could also be determined to be "official match time", but again, we end up with the same problem that it could be word vs. word, or that someone would have to be verifying such things here iin BB at exact given time each and every time, and for the longevity of HGL these kind of things would be best to avoided as I'm sure nobody would enjoy those in the long run).

7. Also match link would be available at the latest on Friday. I don't like the idea of having to login anymore at day before or on a match day, just to verify that correct match links have been provided in time. Remember, I can never see match times at later day, it only shows day when match has been played.

Given the problems that this can cause, I'll also take the opportunity to thank those managers who have diligently done their "duties" in HGL, so that it would roll as smoothly as possible. It's also good to remember, that while these incidents steal a lot of room on the official threads, there have been only minimal amount of these (given the amount of matches that have been played).
So in general, everyone let's keep up the good work, and please everyone, do not forget to set yourself reminders (phone, paper, calendar, computer - whatever works for you!) so that you don't forget your weekly HGL duties!

Last edited by Wagner at 12/14/2025 9:23:49 AM

hello !
I thought the game would happen (with my "new" defaulst line-up) but nothing happened... !
No game, nothing...

and here is a proof of the organisation of this game ;)

https://rehost.diberie.com/Picture/Get/f/464877

Last edited by demars at 12/14/2025 10:26:48 AM

hello !
I thought the game would happen (with my "new" defaulst line-up) but nothing happened... !
No game, nothing...

and here is a proof of the organisation of this game ;)

https://rehost.diberie.com/Picture/Get/f/464877

Yes, fans at Demars Arena were furious and rioting to get their money back... ;)
On a more serious note, "a free ticket" for you to Second Round. And please don't forget to set up your default lineup again, if that's not what you prefer to use for all games (that you changed for just this match that didn't even take place).

But like I said, that was an excellent tip for others as well (to change default lineup to suit your preferences for HGL Playoff match against that exact HGL opponent), for possible situations like this in the future.

Last edited by Wagner at 12/14/2025 5:11:57 PM

First Round of Season 3 Playoffs have been played, but
attention Lielupes Melnās Sirdis and Vilniaus „Vilkai“:
Your match has been played on neutral court (LKKS Arena) so your First Round match result noes NOT count, you need to have a rematch!

Rematch should take place exactly 1 day after original one, that is 3.30PM EET on Monday, 15th of December!
If by any chance you suspect this match is not going to be viable option (as soon as on Monday), then one option is also send another invitation on LMS home court (!) on Tuesday, 16th of December at the same time.

Therefore, if VIV doesn't reply to LMS´s invitation early enough, we'll use 16th day match as a decisive one (and if 2 match invitations are sent immediately and VIV doesn't accept early enough, still second match offer on 16th of December remains for VIV to be accepted, without LMS having to login again and send another invitation).

But Monday 15th is the preferred one, and link for it needs to be provided immediately to scores thread or to my BBmail when it's available - well before match so that I can verify all of it's details as usual!

Given the exceptionality of the situation, anyone of you two can challenge each other on 15th and on 16th of December, (if you want to use extra tokens in the case of VIV) to speed up the match organizing process!

EDIT 15.12.2025:
New match link on 15th of December rematch between LMS and VIV at 3.30PM EET provided by VIV and LMS, new and scores wise only accepted First Round Playoffs match number is 137639174 (match link: (137639174)).



All the rest of the 4 best teams can start to arrange Round 2 matches, because when VIV or LMS wins, either one is going to face VPO (they are worst ranked team from all remaining teams).
See Playoff post for Second Round matchups: (328547.7)

Last edited by Wagner at 12/15/2025 4:53:14 AM