BuzzerBeater Forums

That's an unfortunate situation, especially as SUM are not continuing in the HGL from the coming season. I think the easiest would be to set a time frame deadline, e.g., a challenge has to be sent and accepted 24h before the match, otherwise it's a forfeit to the manager not challenging/accepting the match. Currently it is a really tedious situation with this particular PO match, as you described Wagner, and I believe we should introduce a stronger rule beginning from next season. I think a 24-hour-before deadline is quite reasonable too, as managers have an entire week to complete the match planning in this case.

We can consider adding a more strict rule for these situations.

The problem with clear 24h guideline is though, that while people are for the most part (maybe not for the First Round of Playoff) being able to conclude themselves who they are supposed to meet/challenge on the next Round of Playoffs, the official Playoff matchup post won't be updated at the certain interval each and every time.

So for instance, if official Playoff schedule would be published on one occassion on Sunday at 8PM, and on another occassion on Monday 11AM, then where would the clock start running? People would never know the exact time when this "timer" would be started (and I wouldn't prefer to tie myself to HGL in a way that I have to be around at certain time on every given occassion, but rather make it so that there´s certain amount of flexibility, as there are already lots of tasks that I can't flexibly schedule out during Playoffs - if we take today as an exceptional example, I had to change my whole day of plans due to this unorganized match issue).

So it would be easier to start, say, a 24h, 48h, etc. counter from one given moment that always happens at the same time, but now it doesn't. So as you all know, now the rule goes like this:

- Due to the need to arrange match every week during playoffs, it is important that managers send challenge at the latest on Thursday (note: this time frame could be changed during Season 2), so that team accepting challenge has enough time to accept it.
Remember: last regular season match will take place on Monday at 14.30, or 02.30PM EET Normal Time, (15.30, or 03.30PM EET DST, Daylight Savings Time, a.k.a. Summer Time), so after that match:
A) during rest of season there will be 3 days time to send the Playoff match challenge (Mon->Thu; during Playoffs Sun->Wed)
B) there´s (about) 2 days time to accept match challenge (if it's been sent at the latest possible time, on Wednesday, it needs to be accepted on Friday at the latest, before your designated HGL match time).[..]

What did you exactly mean by "a challenge has to be sent and accepted 24h before the match, otherwise it's a forfeit to the manager not challenging/accepting the match"?
So that challenging and accepting is finished 24h before match?
Who would be there always exactly 24h before the match to report? It could be word vs. word.. And I wouldn't want to make this a "prove by screenshot"-league, also because theoretically those could also be modified.

So the thing is, while I theoretically agree that 24 could be enough time, I've tried to stretch this organizing window as wide as possible for the both participants, as I've seen in practice that we still sometimes have occassional problems with even with these (lot wider than 24h) time frames given for both teams currently.

Solving this by delivering a lot more forfeits is one way, but so far I've tried to stay away from that as much as possible...

But again, we could often be in a situation where there could be word against word (as for instance BB doesn't give us any login data information in addition to "recent login" data, and even with that data, it doesn´t give time of clock when that happened, and of course doesn´t let us know what actions manager took or didn't take).

Solving this by delivering a lot more forfeits is one way, but so far I've tried to stay away from that as much as possible...

To quote myself, this could sometimes be needed to discourage an unwanted behavior, to make league fair for all, and also to make league more manageable in terms of Commissioner duties (restrict the need of being around at exact given times, to prove if something did exist/happen, or whether it didn't).

However, I believe we already would've had one (more) forfeit last Season, should we have been implementing a clear, strict rule with that (and surely more would be coming in future Seasons, given that often times history is the best predictor of likelyhood of future events). Having said that, I don't say implementing stricter rules on this would be bad thing, but we just need to find a proper balance, and figure out how to solve this so that there aren't word against word-situations.

While "clear as a day"-sort of rule set (including penalties) hasn't been yet determined for this exact case (for previously mentioned, good reasons), I think it's necessary for me to say this now:

As it's now 3.30PM EET, and HGL Season 3 First Round Playoff matches have started, and neither of ED or SUM have provided a match link, I have an unfortunate obligation/duty to inform that Elan Demars (ED) will be given "a free ticket" to Second Round of Season 3 Playoffs due to SUM being handed a 0-50 forfeit loss in their First Round match against ED on Season 3 Playoffs.
This is because in this case it's easy to determine, that it's due to SUM not being logged in since 5th of December. Yes, I couldn´t prove that ED had sent a challenge (for the record though, I believe he has, just as he said he had done). However, as we can see, even that is irrelevant in this decision, as match couldn't have been accepted by SUM due to not logging in, so this is the ultimate reason for this decision.

I know these are never nice decisions, especially given the fact that I mentioned, that I've been writing with SUM manager throughout these HGL seasons and he seems like a very good, friendly, and considerate person. We need to remember, that while this would've been the most important match of his Season, and while I have been "complaining" about consequences of this unorganized match, it´s not the end of the world (and we don't know what's happening in anyones´ life at any given time), and after end of the day, Buzzerbeater is just a game and real life is something that matters most.

Having said that doesn't of course mean that I'd downplay the importance of BB and HGL, they are important to me as well just as I'm sure they're important to many of us HGL managers, but it's good to keep the big picture in mind when discussing BB/HGL related topics, when considering what's genuinely important and what's not.

There's no doubt in my mind, that conversation over this (possible rule change, and different aspects that are related to it) will be continued...

There's no doubt in my mind, that conversation over this (possible rule change, and different aspects that are related to it) will be continued...

The problem/challenges with time frame (to challenge/accept) prior/during Playoffs can be broken down as follows for instance:

1. Publication of next Round Playoff schedule is not automatic/set in stone.

2. Let's assume, for the purpose of an example, that schedule is posted within 24 hours of previous played matches.

3. Current rule goes "time to send challenge from Sun to Wed". As said, it many instances (maybe not on Playoffs First Round) all can see who they are supposed to play on next Round and can send challenge themselves, even without consulting official schedule. So again for the purpose of an example, let's say they do the work themselves and see who is supposed to meet (and challenge) who on next Round and send challenges according to "0-hour rule" (challenge cock starts to run "0 hours after previous Playoff match has ended").

4. In this case, challenger team would have 3 days time to challenge, from Sunday early evening until Wednesday

5. Match challenge receiver would have 2 days time to accept challenge from the last possible challenge send-time, in practice meaning from Wednesday to Friday.

6. Now, even if challenge receiver would accept challenge no earlier than on Friday, it would still leave challenger team about 2 days to accept challenge. (Well, theoretically only about 1,5 days, if receiver would accept challenge late in the Friday evening - these deadlines could also be determined to be "official match time", but again, we end up with the same problem that it could be word vs. word, or that someone would have to be verifying such things here iin BB at exact given time each and every time, and for the longevity of HGL these kind of things would be best to avoided as I'm sure nobody would enjoy those in the long run).

7. Also match link would be available at the latest on Friday. I don't like the idea of having to login anymore at day before or on a match day, just to verify that correct match links have been provided in time. Remember, I can never see match times at later day, it only shows day when match has been played.

Given the problems that this can cause, I'll also take the opportunity to thank those managers who have diligently done their "duties" in HGL, so that it would roll as smoothly as possible. It's also good to remember, that while these incidents steal a lot of room on the official threads, there have been only minimal amount of these (given the amount of matches that have been played).
So in general, everyone let's keep up the good work, and please everyone, do not forget to set yourself reminders (phone, paper, calendar, computer - whatever works for you!) so that you don't forget your weekly HGL duties!

Last edited by Wagner at 12/14/2025 9:23:49 AM

hello !
I thought the game would happen (with my "new" defaulst line-up) but nothing happened... !
No game, nothing...

and here is a proof of the organisation of this game ;)

https://rehost.diberie.com/Picture/Get/f/464877

Last edited by demars at 12/14/2025 10:26:48 AM

hello !
I thought the game would happen (with my "new" defaulst line-up) but nothing happened... !
No game, nothing...

and here is a proof of the organisation of this game ;)

https://rehost.diberie.com/Picture/Get/f/464877

Yes, fans at Demars Arena were furious and rioting to get their money back... ;)
On a more serious note, "a free ticket" for you to Second Round. And please don't forget to set up your default lineup again, if that's not what you prefer to use for all games (that you changed for just this match that didn't even take place).

But like I said, that was an excellent tip for others as well (to change default lineup to suit your preferences for HGL Playoff match against that exact HGL opponent), for possible situations like this in the future.

Last edited by Wagner at 12/14/2025 5:11:57 PM

First Round of Season 3 Playoffs have been played, but
attention Lielupes Melnās Sirdis and Vilniaus „Vilkai“:
Your match has been played on neutral court (LKKS Arena) so your First Round match result noes NOT count, you need to have a rematch!

Rematch should take place exactly 1 day after original one, that is 3.30PM EET on Monday, 15th of December!
If by any chance you suspect this match is not going to be viable option (as soon as on Monday), then one option is also send another invitation on LMS home court (!) on Tuesday, 16th of December at the same time.

Therefore, if VIV doesn't reply to LMS´s invitation early enough, we'll use 16th day match as a decisive one (and if 2 match invitations are sent immediately and VIV doesn't accept early enough, still second match offer on 16th of December remains for VIV to be accepted, without LMS having to login again and send another invitation).

But Monday 15th is the preferred one, and link for it needs to be provided immediately to scores thread or to my BBmail when it's available - well before match so that I can verify all of it's details as usual!

Given the exceptionality of the situation, anyone of you two can challenge each other on 15th and on 16th of December, (if you want to use extra tokens in the case of VIV) to speed up the match organizing process!

EDIT 15.12.2025:
New match link on 15th of December rematch between LMS and VIV at 3.30PM EET provided by VIV and LMS, new and scores wise only accepted First Round Playoffs match number is 137639174 (match link: (137639174)).



All the rest of the 4 best teams can start to arrange Round 2 matches, because when VIV or LMS wins, either one is going to face VPO (they are worst ranked team from all remaining teams).
See Playoff post for Second Round matchups: (328547.7)

Last edited by Wagner at 12/15/2025 4:53:14 AM

Sorry for the unfortunate incident. A new match has been arranged for today.

I guess, I feel sorry for demars for the unnecessary stress this situation caused. Changing the default lineup just to ensure that the other manager might still accept the game challenge shortly before tip-off is far from an optimal solution. That said, there probably isn’t an optimal solution to this situation anyway, unless it becomes automated on the BB side (hopefully in the future).

As you have described in detail, this situation is certainly not as straightforward as it would be in a perfect world. I definitely support a minimalistic rules approach for the HGL, however, in this case, the manager who did everything right had to suffer due to the actions, or rather the lack of action, of another manager.

I think it’s unfortunate that this has come up in our small HG community, where I would hope for completely open and fair communication between everyone. Of course, real life sometimes intervenes and takes priority over everything else. At the moment, cthulhu hasn’t logged in for 10 days, which is unusual for a manager who has always been active, so I truly hope there isn’t a serious real-life situation behind this.

I agree that the organization of play-off games is a discussion we should continue, in order to hear ideas from other managers and perhaps find a balanced solution that works, or even conclude that the current system already works best.

Sorry for the unfortunate incident. A new match has been arranged for today.

Alright, well, thanks for reacting to this rematch request in a quick manner kecal and Monēta. (Sometimes it can get problematic when/if we are in a time pressed situation like Playoffs, if managers don't login often, and especially, if both/all of the affected managers would have that habit of not logging in often/reacting to BBMails or forum messages quickly).

Therefore I didn't have to make an attempt to reschedule this days´other real life activities due to not being able to verify new match link in time (when I now got to login).

I guess, I feel sorry for demars for the unnecessary stress this situation caused. Changing the default lineup just to ensure that the other manager might still accept the game challenge shortly before tip-off is far from an optimal solution. That said, there probably isn’t an optimal solution to this situation anyway, unless it becomes automated on the BB side (hopefully in the future).

It can be counted as unnecessary stress, yes... It's a downside of "all-manual league" such as HGL.
Luckily though, we didn't face an awkward situation of him not figuring out this "best of the worst options"-solution of setting a new default lineup and then losing match - then we would've been in a tricky situation.
(Now it's kind of a no brainer which resulted "a free ticket" for demars to Second Round of Playoffs, so at least end result was something he had hoped to achieve).

We could reach such situation in the future though if similar kind of situation gets repeated, so that's why clear penalties would likely be the easiest "solution" to this; but again we'll return to the same problem that I mentioned about, that it's not ideal at all that one would have to login daily at certain time to see if someone has or hasn´t broken the rules.

Anyway, as mentioned, it was as brilliant solution (setting new default lineup) from demars as possible in this situation, and serves as a good example of "best of the worst options"-solution for rest of us for the future (should similar kind of situation occur again).

HGL becoming official part of BB, and therefore becoming "an automated" league would of course solve many problems (while of course in practice any control over any development aspects of the league would be lost simultaneously), but as it seems new owners have not recently been extremely communicative in terms of how they're going to develop BB in the future (reading some threads gives me idea they are going to make big changes to BB in future?), I would't go all in to say HGL will become official part of BB.

I think it’s unfortunate that this has come up in our small HG community, where I would hope for completely open and fair communication between everyone. Of course, real life sometimes intervenes and takes priority over everything else. At the moment, cthulhu hasn’t logged in for 10 days, which is unusual for a manager who has always been active, so I truly hope there isn’t a serious real-life situation behind this.

I agree that the organization of play-off games is a discussion we should continue, in order to hear ideas from other managers and perhaps find a balanced solution that works, or even conclude that the current system already works best.

As you have described in detail, this situation is certainly not as straightforward as it would be in a perfect world. I definitely support a minimalistic rules approach for the HGL, however, in this case, the manager who did everything right had to suffer due to the actions, or rather the lack of action, of another manager.

It is indeed a balancing act, and there are multiple sides/points in all this that are not perfect. It is what we're going to have to deal with though, but that's not to say I wouldn't want to hear ideas on how to possibly improve on some things. I do that kind of pondering quite a lot myself (in terms of development ideas), but often times I end up with similar kind of results as what I described in earlier message (how the current rule of Playoff match organizing goes), which is more or less "things are complicated when you think of them thoroughly, and often times no perfect/simple solution that always works optimally in every situation can be found".

It is definitely my wish as well that we keep on communicating in completely open and fair manner, and just like you said, I just hope it's not something serious real world issue that has caused cthulhu not logging in recently.

Quarter-Finals have been played, and Semifinals on HGL Season 3 look like this:

Rank #1 VPO vs. #4 KKS (Match organized and links provided; VPO please add match link to your box score post)

Rank #2 HAD vs. #3 RAJ (Match organized and links provided)

Team names that are bolded, are home teams that are responsible for sending PU match challenge (as usual).

Please proceed in match organizing process as soon as possible (to allow time for some unexpected events, and for other team to accept challenge, and for your own tactics&lineup setup once match has been organized).

Last edited by Wagner at 12/24/2025 7:13:57 AM