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Home-Grown League (HGL) Season 4 Official Thread

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From: demars
This Post:
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329501.191 in reply to 329501.190
Date: 3/15/2026 10:57:27 AM
Elan Demars
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
251251
Some few thoughts :

-a- you wrote "winter time" just above. I think that we (in France and UE (?)) change to Summer Time in 2 weeks. It could create problems

-b- I have new ideas in :
- case of more than 20 teams
- un-loading the amout of work

If we'd been 24 teams, we could create TWO leagues (2 x 12).
Every team faces 11 other teams of its league.
Post Season : The 2 best of each league make a Final Pool-> 3 games each (a total of games)
Post Season : the same for the teams ranked 3-4 (6 games)
etc... (6 pool of 4 teams)
Post Season Total Games : 6 x 6 = 36 games

Then, Finals :
#1 / # 2 (1 game)
#3 / # 4 (1 game)
The same for each pool
Finals Total -> 12 games

This ranks ALL the teams.
Season 2, the 2 leagues are created like this :
League 1 : #1 + #4 + #5 + #8 + #9 + #12 + #13 + #16 + #17 + #20 + #21 + #24
League 2 : #2 + #3 etc...

Total Games : 132 + 36 + 12 = 180 games
Total Games by team : 11 + 3 + 1 = 15 games (we have 14 weeks)

I think it's pretty fair, even if we don't face EVERY other teams, but each season the leagues will be different.
Every team play the same number of games.
Every one knows that he will stay for the next season (iof he wants to naturally !)

I think (but I haven't mathematically counted everything) that it should give less work BUT :
- WE all should more flexible as there are 3 different phases instead of 2
- it could gives YOU (the chairman) more BB Mails to send for reminding the things to do

What do you think about it ?

From: Wagner

This Post:
00
329501.192 in reply to 329501.191
Date: 3/15/2026 6:06:03 PM
Wagner College
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
434434
Some few thoughts :

-a- you wrote "winter time" just above. I think that we (in France and UE (?)) change to Summer Time in 2 weeks. It could create problems


I'll chop this answer down to two parts.

As for HGL Playoffs, change of time in a middle of Playoffs is very inconvenient, but it shouldn't become a problem (unless I'm mistaken).

At least before time changes to Summer Time in Europe, match time will remain the same.
Then, technically we'd end up using 13.30 EET for the rest of Season 4 Playoffs, but we'll see, probably we'll just stick with 13.30 for the rest of Season 4 (as I believe that was the practice on earlier Season when this happened, but I could well be mistaken).

As for now, we just keep organizing matches at 13.30EET (1.30PM) winter time.

-b- I have new ideas in :
- case of more than 20 teams
- un-loading the amout of work

If we'd been 24 teams, we could create TWO leagues (2 x 12).
Every team faces 11 other teams of its league.
Post Season : The 2 best of each league make a Final Pool-> 3 games each (a total of games)
Post Season : the same for the teams ranked 3-4 (6 games)
etc... (6 pool of 4 teams)
Post Season Total Games : 6 x 6 = 36 games

Then, Finals :
#1 / # 2 (1 game)
#3 / # 4 (1 game)
The same for each pool
Finals Total -> 12 games

This ranks ALL the teams.
Season 2, the 2 leagues are created like this :
League 1 : #1 + #4 + #5 + #8 + #9 + #12 + #13 + #16 + #17 + #20 + #21 + #24
League 2 : #2 + #3 etc...

Total Games : 132 + 36 + 12 = 180 games
Total Games by team : 11 + 3 + 1 = 15 games (we have 14 weeks)

I think it's pretty fair, even if we don't face EVERY other teams, but each season the leagues will be different.
Every team play the same number of games.
Every one knows that he will stay for the next season (iof he wants to naturally !)

I think (but I haven't mathematically counted everything) that it should give less work BUT :
- WE all should more flexible as there are 3 different phases instead of 2
- it could gives YOU (the chairman) more BB Mails to send for reminding the things to do

What do you think about it ?

I don't have time to respond to your proposition after perfect consideration, but I'll give my initial thought (which is likely not going to change though).

I thank you for sending ideas demars. Having said that, I don't think this current system should be changed, at least for now.

Like I said, if it seems necessary, it's possible to consider a very short Play-in Playoffs/mini league to determine next Season's (new) participants. It is necessary to consider at this point if it would bring enough additional value to especially add teams that are not yet very/at all competitive, in an exchange of added workload. (My thoughts on this found from previous posts).

This system/proposition that you sent has many challenges "built into it" that this current league system is knowingly built to tackle/evade.

Such as:

- not every team meeting every team (not fair, there's no going around that; also, into what is your ranking of teams into groups A and B based on (#1, 4 and 5 to A) and #2, 3 and 6 to B) etc.)? Why I ask this is because teams will not be distributed 100% evenly. And while they'd be moved into different groups potentially for next season, their team strength doesn't anymore reflect their actual salary value on that season, as teams progress at different speed)

- stats not fair, if not everybody meets everybody

- being more complicated than current system (and also in current system every team is receiving a ranking - if important)

- it would be necessary to change things from season to season (different group composition, challenge responsibilites, schedule) even though no change in participating teams would occur

- we don't want to be using 14 weeks if BB season's lenght is 14 weeks; time for pre-season process/break is needed.


Last edited by Wagner at 3/16/2026 1:47:54 PM

From: Wagner

This Post:
00
329501.194 in reply to 329501.193
Date: 3/16/2026 7:35:39 AM
Wagner College
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
434434

demars:
Some few thoughts :
[..]
If we'd been 24 teams, we could create TWO leagues (2 x 12).
Every team faces 11 other teams of its league.
Post Season : The 2 best of each league make a Final Pool-> 3 games each (a total of games)
Post Season : the same for the teams ranked 3-4 (6 games)
etc... (6 pool of 4 teams)
Post Season Total Games : 6 x 6 = 36 games

Then, Finals :
#1 / # 2 (1 game)
#3 / # 4 (1 game)
The same for each pool
Finals Total -> 12 games

This ranks ALL the teams.
Season 2, the 2 leagues are created like this :
League 1 : #1 + #4 + #5 + #8 + #9 + #12 + #13 + #16 + #17 + #20 + #21 + #24
League 2 : #2 + #3 etc...

Total Games : 132 + 36 + 12 = 180 games
Total Games by team : 11 + 3 + 1 = 15 games (we have 14 weeks)

I think it's pretty fair, even if we don't face EVERY other teams, but each season the leagues will be different.
Every team play the same number of games.
Every one knows that he will stay for the next season (iof he wants to naturally !)

I think (but I haven't mathematically counted everything) that it should give less work BUT :
- WE all should more flexible as there are 3 different phases instead of 2
- it could gives YOU (the chairman) more BB Mails to send for reminding the things to do

What do you think about it ?


MrJ:
I actually like this, demars. It's not perfect, but it is a fair proposal. However, as Wagner has noted, there are still issues. However, I think there will always be issues. [..]

I still believe that while quality is better than quantity, if we have the quantity, we should consider how and if we can grow it.

Ultimately, Wagner will have the last say on any changes/propositions. However, I would encourage all managers competing in the HGL to voice their thoughts.


Yes, everything will always have some issues, but the point is, current system tackles more issues than any system that I've heard of so far. Point is, change shouldn't be implemented based on a statement 'there will always be some issues anyway'.

As mentioned, simple Play-in mini league (HGL Promotion Mini-League/Entry-League or Playoffs and/or mix of both, for example two best of mini-league playing a promotion final, to receive a chance to meet worst team in HGL Regular Season, in order to win a place in HGL next Season) does the trick well enough, if that's seen necessary.

Given the amount of teams not currently "fitting in", it would give those teams chance to meet other teams looking for entry, and give them some idea how their team fares against the competition. One match against each other would be enough to determine the correct and 100% fair "rankings" among those teams looking for entering, so Round Robin could be the system used (if it'd some day be mini-league and not just Playoffs, in where matchups from round to round would be based for example on top8-salaries - this would of course require that there would be even number of teams requiring entry to HGL, or that one team would be excluded from Playoffs by making two worst teams meet each other before the actual HGL entry-Playoffs.

This of course would require then that there is space available in HGL, and here we come to this situation:
- every Season prior to this many teams have not continued in HGL on the next Season; nobody knows situation on Season 5
- if nobody announces not to participate on Season 6, then it might be necessary to conditionally make worst team in HGL to meet the winner of HGL entry league (or expand HGL, up to max. 20 teams)

This HGL entry league would not include many Rounds, as there aren't many teams. However, we would have to ask teams to decide earlier if they want to participate to next HGL Season.
Now the limit is "until the end of Regular Season". If it´d be "until Round 11 in the RS", then we could start this entry league at the same time with HGL RS Round 14 or so, which should leave enough time.

From: Wagner

This Post:
00
329501.195 in reply to 329501.193
Date: 3/16/2026 8:22:22 AM
Wagner College
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
434434
[..]
I still believe that while quality is better than quantity, if we have the quantity, we should consider how and if we can grow it.
[..]

We can always consider options, but like I said:
Quality is always more important than quantity. Always.

And discussing about something doesn't mean it should necessarily be changed. My thought is, don't fix it if it ain't broken.

But if you do change something, think it through carefully before you do, and try to do changes incrementally if possible, to see the effects (and if that correction - if necessary in the first place to begin with - has been big enough to bring the desired change/better balance).

If you read my previous posts carefully, you'll see that I personally do not say "while quality is better than quantity" (like you put it).

I'm telling everyone that:

A) the workload is already almost over the limit now. Not perfect time to add workload, is it?
B) I've had chance to use lots of time to HGL, who knows if that continues "forever"; we shouldn't uncontrollably expand, but to keep that in mind so that HGL will keep on running no matter what
C) it's easier to not accept new teams than to kick out current managers (if we'd expand to 20 now, and new teams would want to enter on next Season, then we'd reach the "relegation situation" almost certainly, and couldn't implement it on the middle of the Season if we want to have the practice of informing teams of that relegation risk prior to Season beginning, and preferably before the participation announcement-deadline is even reached)
D) it's not guaranteed spots wouldn't open to Season 5&/6 by teams's exiting

Everything will always include some ups and downs, but what I feel what we have "found" (come into) here now is in a way a sweet spot, that optimizes fairness and maximizes the benefits that can be achieved, while simultaneously not being overly complicated (this kind of league system is used in highest Finnish ice hockey league, Liiga, so it's gone through "IRL-testing").

Also, it's good to be able to organize as little amount of Playoff matches as possible, because that's the riskiest time of the Season for us. I think we've had only 1 mistake so far (wrong court balance), but amount of mistakes (including unorganized matches) would likely go up if there is a need to do lot more match organizing during the post-season. Also, as demars noted, lot more reminding to do. Which again reminds me of something that I said earlier, that it's more essential to concentrate also to the quality in terms of HGL running as well as possible without extra intervention from Commissioner, and that's where every HGL manager have their impact on HGL.

This, however isn't necessarily due to "new-to-HGL" managers, that certain recurring challenges persist, but sometimes it seems the amount of written instructions/reminders doesn't fix the situation.
So again also in this department, let's first and foremost make sure HGL runs smoothly and managers follow guidelines/procedures/rules, and then if and as that's the case, it's easier to look into expansion. Again, ensuring quality and operational smoothness, instead of first and foremost just looking into expansion.

For instance, certain rules/practices have been there Seasons, and I have written reminders by BBMail and on forum multiple times. As an example, while this isn't as critical task as, say, not organizing matches correctly, I could mention that 3 teams haven't even started filling their own teams' box score post (and some are behind in their updates quite a bit), and we're playing the last Round of RS.

Then, as mentioned, I haven't gone through all transfer-pages, to see if there are unannounced transfers that Commissioner needs to be informed of. These are just two examples, on small part of the league. But you can all imagine it spreads further than these two things.

So: quality is of utmost importance.

Last edited by Wagner at 3/16/2026 8:25:22 AM

From: Wagner

This Post:
00
329501.196 in reply to 329501.175
Date: 3/16/2026 1:49:17 PM
Wagner College
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
434434
Playoff-post for Season 4 is now updated (here: (329502.7)), and Official Regular Season Rankings (ORSR) and First Round Playoff-schedule created.

Please let me know ASAP if you notice any faults in any of that information.

I noticed changing into Daylight Savings Time (DST) during Playoffs will likely cause some confusion as it'll take place later on, but we'll have to be especially accurate with match times on that week when it happens (and we have some time to discuss how it'll affect - this can sometimes become a bit complicated).

I also noticed going back and forth in some posts, what becomes to Official HGL match time during Season 4 Playoffs.

While it may seem a bit contradictory from some point of view, I think it's fine to keep the same match time during Playoffs as well. So official match time for Season 4 Playoffs is your local equivalent of 13.30 EET, a.k.a. 01.30PM EET.

This is the same time that you should see your HGL matches have been taking place, when you look at your HGL schedule. (Yes, I just noticed there's some contradiction with the HGL rules, but let's go with this time 13.30 EET for now).


Anyway, match organizing process for First Round of Playoffs has started, so home teams, please proceed sending challenges if you don't find any mistakes in league table/ORSR-table.

All the care has been taken to ensure it's correct, but it doesn't harm everyone to scan it for totally obvious mistakes.

Please remember to send your match links (for Playoff-matches) to your teams' own box score post. You may also in addition send it to Scores-Thread, if you want.

PO Round 1 (teams ranked 5th-12th; 8 play): Sunday, March 22nd, 2026
Rank #5 VIV vs. #12 VDT (138673698)
Rank #6 ED vs. #11 MAD (138676517)
Rank #7 BCR vs. #10 WMO (138673971)
Rank #8 EOS vs. #9 WAG (138674192)


(Attention: all playoff matches organized every single week.
All playoff matches are played on home/away court only !)

Last edited by Wagner at 3/22/2026 7:29:03 AM

This Post:
00
329501.201 in reply to 329501.200
Date: 3/19/2026 2:36:51 PM
BC Eos
Kõrgliiga
Overall Posts Rated:
379379
Second Team:
Köplased
Awesome work, thanks!

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