BuzzerBeater Forums

I really hope we have some nice insiders coming around :s

I would have prefered Hungary instead of Portugal in second round, but I have been honest enough to play seriously the last game.

Awsome, so your a honest man after all...lol

I was previous NT of Portugal for 6 seasons, and I was aware of this "backstab", but still didn't comment much, since the result was not bad still. Now after your comments, I felt I needed to talk for a bit, cause it isnt normal that your looking proud of your actions.

Portugal is favorite in normal conditions, considering this 2 NT's at this moment...that means we can't propose TIE?! We still knew Belgium is a really strong team, and we didn't want to loose enthusiasm, so we proposed it. If you don't like it, say no...you can still play TIE if you want, or if you fell all that "pressure" as some people talked, just don't answer and its all good.

Now...telling you agree, and than going back on your word?! You could have easily won that game in my opinion with more enthusiasm, and if that happened, I would felt sick of your Nation, because of your action...just saying.

Not here to start something, just giving my opinion on TIE's and on people who betray them. And since every NT coach does it, I bet others agree with this.

Good luck for the rest of the season ;)


Last edited by Melo9 at 2/27/2018 7:30:58 PM

I don't know all the whereabouts of the thing, but basically a TIE deal is putting a lot of pressure on the side receiving it.

You're always losing when you get one : say yes and your TS management is locked (and you're probably to lose a game). Say no and you're up against at least normal - say nothing is basically "it's no but I can't tell", that's what most people offering TIE deals don't seem to understand : not answering is ALREADY an answer.

Suppose I'm managing a weak team and I'm planning to ambush a stronger nation bound to TIE their game against me. Then a TIE deal comes in : whether I betray my answer, or I'm screwed. Only negative outcomes from my point of view.

Seeing that Portugal won by quite a margin despite playing with lower enthusiasm and a successful belgian GDP, this TIE proposal was completely unnecessary, your side is way stronger than ours. Thus, proposing a TIE when you're by far the better team seems like you're just making sure that you can't be ambushed. After all, maybe you did the same to England, Turkey and Hungary, who knows ? You would be making sure every possible threat TIEs you or they're traitors, how convenient TIE deals are.

It really seems you to want to eat your cake and have it too.

If Joe had come to you to propose a TIE deal, and then had broken it after you accepted, I'm completely OK that it would have been a particular cheapass move. I would 100 % support you in that case.

You propose a TIE deal you're taking a risk, if you're unwilling to take it just don't ask. In that particular case things couldn't have turned better for you, so what ?

Not here to start something ...

What is your point then ? Game is played, things turned out for the best for Portugal, that's it.

Good luck for the rest of the season.

p.s- Oh and about this "If you refuse I will make sure you lose", don't lie :( its ugly."

It seems it'll be your word against Joe's, so difficult to have a stance on that.

EDIT : My writing seem very aggressive though I don't want to be. I've managed U21 and NT for 4 or 5 mandates (I honestly can't remember anymore) and I have seen countless topics on TIE deals and also received quite a share myself. I've always been against that, making a TIE plan when your schedule is out is one of the toughest tasks of NT/U21 management and should really stay that way.

Last edited by Dartreb at 2/27/2018 7:51:38 PM

Hi guys, I just want to leave here my point of view, mainly after seeing what Joe wrote.

I proposed the Tie, and I said I would play normal but in any moment it was Intended to be a threat. Let's say that I didn't had written the part that I would play normal, it would implied obviously. It's like Dartreb says here:

Say no and you're up against at least normal - say nothing is basically "it's no but I can't tell"

How it could be a threat if even I didn't said "I will play normal" it would be implied?

But what brings me here is the fact that I'm being called a scoundrel and I don't understand why. I'm being called a scoundrel for proposing a Tie. I not even care if Joe kept is word or not, I didn't even think to say anything about it. If you go search all of my post's on the portuguese NT topic you will see that in any moment before Joe's post here I said anything about that so was with some surprise that I was reading this topic and saw Joe calling me a scoundrel.

That's why I am posting this. I don't want deteriorate this topic, that's why this will be my only post here, just want to clarify my point because I don't want bad blood with anyone.

I asked Joe if he was interested in the tie because either of us would have to win the last game, and even after that we would need entusiasm for the next phase right? I'm really sorry if Joe understood that as threat or something, in any moment it was my intention. But if he thought it was a "very unfair" as he said, he could have said that or simply decline it, he even says «He had added that if I refused, he would have played normal, but I'm not sure that it was true.» So if he didn't even think I would play normal either way he could have just declined it right?. Following his idea I would play tie anyway so it would be the same normal vs tie how it was.

But has I said i don't even care if Joe kept his word, as Dartreb says

You propose a TIE deal you're taking a risk, if you're unwilling to take it just don't ask.

and I totally agree. When I proposed the Tie I was willing of the risk and I don't care if Joe kept his word regarding that, but it's hard to come here and see that I'm being called a scoundrel because proposing a Tie.

And that's it. Only wanted to show you my point of view and try to clarify this. I don't want bad blood with anyone. Joe is probably the best Belgium manager of BB, even a former B3 semifinalist and I respect him as I respect everyone in BB.

Good luck to you all in your games.

My writing seem very aggressive though I don't want to be.

Same here, i just want to clarify things hope my post doesn't seem to aggressive.

Greetings to all




Last edited by Jonas at 2/27/2018 9:15:09 PM

Well since you like realization questions lol, do you realize that we can't see your player skills? Do you realize that you have beaten an nice team Suomi and also Turkey (wich we didnt play yet and don't know value)? Do you realize we used some enthusiasm before our game and that we both are 4-1 at this point?

We coming here soft, but your just considering your point of view. We had no idea how strong you were....if we knew that we are stronger to win even with less enthusiasm, we obviously wouldn't send the TIE.

Overall, the big discussion here is about people being at a disavantage when they receive TIE proposals. And I honestly don't agree with you I've received multiple offers, and sent as much, and I don't feel any pressure when I get them.

When I get them, and I don't want it, I just don't answer, he can't know if I read it or not, and I can still play TIE. As for what the other team will play despite me not answering, many times they still play TIE cause they need it.

When I offer them, If people don't answer or say no, I have no idea what they will play..I may think they are going for a Normal, but many times I've got TIE too so idk.

p.s- this topic should move to NT forum

Do you realize that you have won by 12 despite a lower attitude?

Yeah I won by 12, but is easy to say it now. From what I can see, I played that game with my best team and with the tactic that best suits us. Looking at your team now, I don't think you can say the same, if you have played your outside offense as usual you would probably have won or at least the game would have been close. Instead you played the tactic that best suits us, It only wasn't your best offense as also you played to our best defense (inside).

Before I proposed the tie I looked at both teams. We had best bigs against your's, but our guards are crap and would be in disadvantage against yours (you can see for example our game against Hungary, they played outside and win us by 10). To add to that we had played with effort in games before. So when I was analising your team, what I see is a match up where we have stronger bigs, and weaker guards and the only thing I know about your entusiasm is that you played with more effort against Turkey (so in best case we would be with same entusiasm) and that you won that game playing outside against a prodigious outside defense. Taking all of that in account, and knowing that Turkey has best team than us and you still beat them do you think I look at our game thinking that we were much stronger? While you thought we were much stronger than you, I thought that the game could be close.

If I really thought that we were much stronger as you say, why would I even bother proposing a tie? You can say that we still won by 12 with less effort, but we will never know if that would be the case if you had played your best offense.

As I said before I don't care if you kept the word regarding the Tie, simply don't care because I know the risk. Only came here to defend myself from the "scoundrel" thing, and to demonstraste my point of view regarding that Tie proposal because it's the first time that I propose a TIE to someone, and the person takes it as an offense LOL. I am sure almost every NT coach proposes mutual ties. The one who receives it has a handful of options, but consider a Tie proposal as threat is another level for me.

Regarding the real reason why I posted here:

In French I wanted to say: "gonflé" or "culotté"

Well, I really don't know french but I hope that words can be something softer than scoundrel

This is my last post here. As I said don't want bad blood with anyone, you are free to have your opinions, if you think I proposed the tie as a threat, well that's up to you, can't do nothing about that. Already explained my view, and I remain with my conscience clean, after all the only thing I did was to propose a TIE, that i'm sure most of you in my place would have proposed too (maybe even you Joe) and I kept my word regarding that TIE so I dont have any reason to have any regret.

Well, hope the best to you all, and once again i'm sorry to invade your topic with this.

Greetings,
Jonas

Last edited by Jonas at 2/28/2018 7:21:21 AM