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I was talking only about the visual part of an animated viewer. My point was that it doesn't have to be complicated with high end graphics or real live one one representation. There are a lot od cheap graphic ideas that they can update and improve the current viewing experience.

I know that writing a code for a live gameplay its hard. It needs time, testing and many more. But having a pull with 20 - 30 standard situations where the GE will have the choice to pick out one that suits with the sentences? Its exactly what the current viewer doing. You only need the graphic part. And that's what we are saying. It doesn't have to be completed or perfectly 3d made or it doesn't have to come with the first release.

OK, let's say attacking team has players A1, A2, ..., A5 and defending team D1, D2, ... , D5. Man to man defense.

You draw attacking players based on position (PG, ..., C) and maybe tactic. A1 far from the rim, A5 close to the rim.

You are correct beyond this point

You make them move rather randomly around that initial position. You invent some random passes. Up to this point all this is shit because it has almost nothing to do with the game engine. It is just a fantasy.

If youd can Observe in real life... All of the offensive Setup used in Basketball have patterns and probabilities of Passing lanes and Shot Selection... I already have shared to you the links where you can read what other Manager already have observed from the GE with the Offensive and Defensive Setups.

Theres a Formula to every aspect of the ball movement in the game... I believe you can also get some clue when you see a Build of a player and his game History... either his a Pass First Oriented or a Shoot First Oriented player. and together with your other players... you can get an idea of how your Team can score a basket.

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You make this for maybe 20 seconds until the real shot is produced.

In this game there is a thing called Pace in every Offensive Setup there is...
If you have read what I shared to you on the link from the message above... You could have read:

A faster pace means that your team will take more shots early on in the shot clock. Your coach might tell your players to take a shot when they think they have a 20% chance of making it as opposed to a slower pace where your coach is going to look for a better shot and might tell the players to shoot when they think they have a 25% shot at making it.

Then I ask you, where do you draw the defending players D1,..., D5?

It depends of your Defensive Setup and the Defensive Position you have assigned your Offensive Player's Position from your "Set Your Lineup" page

If you observe in real life there are also different player movements in every Defensive Plays... If you have read the link from the message I once shared to you... You can also find some clues on how might these setups are applied in the game.

There are again Formula in every ball movement in-game.... and of course... there are some elements of randomness and in it...

I believe that the Development Team can convert the generated play-by-play Scripts that is based from both team's Game Setups to an animation... If you have visited the youtube Link from the post above... Some Web-based Managerial game already have done it even in a Football game with a lot more players and probabilities on their play-by-play scripts compared to basketball... and the Scripts are justified by the animations.

and if you have only back-read you can see that even BB-Justin says that its possible:


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Play-by-play animations would be great

BB-Dr J tells me this all the time.

Some day... It would be a lot of work though.

There are three things to be considered
(1) game-engine
(2) play-by-play
(3) viewer

Formulas are in the game engine.
The game engine make the calculations and spits the play-by-play
The viewer takes the play-by-play and renders it in a graphic representation.

In the game engine there are almost nothing of what you are talking about.
But even this is irrelevant, because the viewern is concerned only with what you read in the play-by-play. You don't want the viewer to give different information that can't be found in the play-by-play.
And this limits a lot what you can do in the viewer.
And ignoring this limit only drives us to wasting our time.

I agree with you that the Animations of the play-by-play script... doesnt need to be the perfect representation of what the formula in the GE... Its just need to justify what the play-by-play Script is describing and the motion of the offensive team is based on what it observable in real life and logical movements to our eyes... and that the Defensive Team Player assignments and movements is based on their Setup Matchups and movements and coverage is based on what the Defensive plays' Pattern in Real life and Logical to our eyes.

IDK... but what you say doesn't matter anymore to me... Other games already have proven that it is possible.. and even BB-Justin said that it is possible...

Probably this is the case related to this... being blind to what there already exists... and just wanting to believe what wanted to believe:
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Bad managers read in the game numbers what they a priori wanted to read.

Probably this would be the last time ill be replying to you... I find it not healthy replying to you... coz you have a pattern...

Have a nice day... May all of us have a nice life...

Last edited by Bro_Khen at 10/04/2021 04:06:20

It seems that the main point where you disagree upon is the fact that the viewer should or should not use generic animations for game action that is not written in the Game Engine (ie the position of players and passes leading up to a play-by-play sentence).

I think we can all agree that it's not possible to display animations for the actual game action, because the game engine does not contain these actions. So the question is, is it OK to use "fictional" or semi random animations for the sake of making the viewer more attractive?

I feel like your discussion would be more fruitful if it was centered purely around this question.

I personally think it could be OK as long as it's clear which part is fictional and which is actual, and I believe it's possible to make the animations in such a way that it's clear.

OK. I am not sure if everybody is on that same page. But, as an answer to your post, I am AGAINST using fictional animations because of these reasons:

(1) That is a lot of work and time, and we don't even know if they will be able to get the basic stuff done or when.
(2) Those animations will be fun during the first game we watch. But very soon they will become repetitive, boring or even annoying.
(3) There are a lot of real information that can be displayed and highlighted: they can mix the play by play with the statistics. When I watched games, I was alternating those three views (play by play with shots, statistics of my team, statistics of the other team). That mixing can be done by the viewer.
(4) There are a lot information that is not registered in the play-by-play but that is "public" and, solving some easy technical issues, can be added to the viewer: salary,. DMI, GS of the players, faces, league statistics and standings ...

We all enjoy this game for the data. If somebody needs a 3d simulation of graphic delicatessen, they won't stick to this game for long. We are data lovers and that is what the viewer has to give us.

I'm also against prioritizing those animations, I agree there are more important things and there's a lot to do even with the current available information. I just wanted to help your discussion ;)

I feel like your discussion would be more fruitful if it was centered purely around this question.

I agree. We people are tending to slip away from the purpose and the real meaning of a conversation because we like to talk. I do it very often and i know how exhausting can be. So back to the topic.

I agree of setting the real questions and try to find the real and important answers. I also want to add that BB its a game and it can includes "fictional" actions and events, just because BB itself is fictional. And if you try to change something and make it too realistic then there's a chance to make the contrast between realistic and fictional features even wider. And here it comes again... New thread new topic new "fight" of how can we change the rest fictional parts to realistic.

It's possible, it's a decision, yeah it's a decision of changing the hole game, it's gonna last veeeery long and it's gonna need money. But it's a decision that it has to be taken. So let's set the question.

I think it has been already set and it has been already answered.

So in the question of LA-Jeründerbar, i hardly believe that trying to achieve a better experience its not just not bad to have a fictional viewer which is trying to follow the pattern of olay by play, but it's one of the graphic touches that an app game (the browser maybe too) would needed.

Last edited by bobos-re at 10/05/2021 01:58:48

I fully agree that it becomes useless from the fifth or tenth game you watch live ..

If the viewer has no decision-making power (substitutions or other change) or to see based on the animations of the statistics related to the game engine, the animation itself loses meaning ..

Now don't tell me that you would watch every game live with an unrelated and unimportant animation just to see pixels move around the screen ..

While I personally don't value those animations, I do think it's a legitimate question whether those animations can be of value to keep new users interested in the game. I can imagine a lack of animation can be disappointing when the first game rolls around, and maybe new users quit (partly) because of that disappointment. If the animations can be the difference to keep new users around, it might be valuable for that purpose.

However, in the context of an MVP of the app, I still don't think this should be part of it since it would be an overall improvement and not strictly required to make the game function via app.

Last edited by Jeründerbar at 10/05/2021 07:40:43