BuzzerBeater Forums

This really depends on your product goal, are you trying to make the whole game of Buzzerbeater accessible through an app, or are you trying to make a successful app that represents Buzzerbeater? If it's the former, the MVP would need a lot of things in order to make it work with the browser version. If it's the latter, you have much more freedom if you make it stand-alone, and you can keep it much smaller (meaning much less time-to-market, less risk etc).

In my opinion I think it's best to start as small as possible to get real feedback on your app as soon as possible (instead of just wishlists and great ideas that don't fit your product goal).

As a first testable version, I'd say you'd need the be able to offer the following experience:

1. Prepare for and play a game - this is the core of the game
- Have a roster of players with skills
- Analyse your opponent in some way
- Set a lineup and tactics
- See the results

2. Develop your roster - this is what people like, see what you can include
- Improve a player
- Draft a player
- Add a player

I think all else is just extra and can be added after the first release to keep things as simple as possible.

Things I'd leave out of the MVP
- Transfer list/player market (maybe another way to acquire players, but not via bids)
- Staff purchasing through bids

Play-by-play animations would be great

BB-Dr J tells me this all the time.

Some day... It would be a lot of work though.

Yeah that's true, but it doesn't have to be (when the time comes) to complicated. Just a small update of the current arena viewer during tha game. Something like dots(players) and point(ball) it could be interesting. Like watching your coach giving you instructions on his tactics board.

(https://images.app.goo.gl/HN4vvBPjBpPvRhAQ7)

Todays live report can stay as it is under it. Both features are interesting and important for the better experience.

But players don't have any real position on the floor. Shots do, but not players. You don't even know what player is defending whom in man defense at the start of the game (you can guess from play-by-play, but guessing is not the job of the viewer).

And you ask not only the position of each player at the start of the game, you ask also for their movement? That is not possible, any try of doing that would give a very bad result. You can only draw the shot, as it is now.

And you ask not only the position of each player at the start of the game, you ask also for their movement? That is not possible, any try of doing that would give a very bad result. You can only draw the shot, as it is now.

Other Managerial games can and we already have suggested it before for BB to look at them to get some inspiration:
https://imgur.com/e6FwnEd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8JERrZBVWg&feature=yo...

Why do you quote part of my post if you are ignoring my argument?

Why do you quote part of my post if you are ignoring my argument?

I just get to the point that your argument is not entirely correct coz some other games have successfully integrated animations on their play-by-play that shows who guards who...

I tried it not just once with you and other managers else were in the forum and it didnt go well
example: (311558.4)

Coz most probably this argument below is correct
(311648.47)

Bad managers read in the game numbers what they a priori wanted to read.

Whats your argument again so probably it is again for clarification?


Last edited by Bro_Khen at 10/03/2021 20:08:43

OK, let's say attacking team has players A1, A2, ..., A5 and defending team D1, D2, ... , D5. Man to man defense.

You draw attacking players based on position (PG, ..., C) and maybe tactic. A1 far from the rim, A5 close to the rim. You make them move rather randomly around that initial position. You invent some random passes. Up to this point all this is shit because it has almost nothing to do with the game engine. It is just a fantasy. You make this for maybe 20 seconds until the real shot is produced.

Then I ask you, where do you draw the defending players D1,..., D5?

I was talking only about the visual part of an animated viewer. My point was that it doesn't have to be complicated with high end graphics or real live one one representation. There are a lot od cheap graphic ideas that they can update and improve the current viewing experience.

I know that writing a code for a live gameplay its hard. It needs time, testing and many more. But having a pull with 20 - 30 standard situations where the GE will have the choice to pick out one that suits with the sentences? Its exactly what the current viewer doing. You only need the graphic part. And that's what we are saying. It doesn't have to be completed or perfectly 3d made or it doesn't have to come with the first release.

OK, let's say attacking team has players A1, A2, ..., A5 and defending team D1, D2, ... , D5. Man to man defense.

You draw attacking players based on position (PG, ..., C) and maybe tactic. A1 far from the rim, A5 close to the rim.

You are correct beyond this point

You make them move rather randomly around that initial position. You invent some random passes. Up to this point all this is shit because it has almost nothing to do with the game engine. It is just a fantasy.

If youd can Observe in real life... All of the offensive Setup used in Basketball have patterns and probabilities of Passing lanes and Shot Selection... I already have shared to you the links where you can read what other Manager already have observed from the GE with the Offensive and Defensive Setups.

Theres a Formula to every aspect of the ball movement in the game... I believe you can also get some clue when you see a Build of a player and his game History... either his a Pass First Oriented or a Shoot First Oriented player. and together with your other players... you can get an idea of how your Team can score a basket.

(311558.2)

You make this for maybe 20 seconds until the real shot is produced.

In this game there is a thing called Pace in every Offensive Setup there is...
If you have read what I shared to you on the link from the message above... You could have read:

A faster pace means that your team will take more shots early on in the shot clock. Your coach might tell your players to take a shot when they think they have a 20% chance of making it as opposed to a slower pace where your coach is going to look for a better shot and might tell the players to shoot when they think they have a 25% shot at making it.

Then I ask you, where do you draw the defending players D1,..., D5?

It depends of your Defensive Setup and the Defensive Position you have assigned your Offensive Player's Position from your "Set Your Lineup" page

If you observe in real life there are also different player movements in every Defensive Plays... If you have read the link from the message I once shared to you... You can also find some clues on how might these setups are applied in the game.

There are again Formula in every ball movement in-game.... and of course... there are some elements of randomness and in it...

I believe that the Development Team can convert the generated play-by-play Scripts that is based from both team's Game Setups to an animation... If you have visited the youtube Link from the post above... Some Web-based Managerial game already have done it even in a Football game with a lot more players and probabilities on their play-by-play scripts compared to basketball... and the Scripts are justified by the animations.

and if you have only back-read you can see that even BB-Justin says that its possible:


(308840.8)

Play-by-play animations would be great

BB-Dr J tells me this all the time.

Some day... It would be a lot of work though.

There are three things to be considered
(1) game-engine
(2) play-by-play
(3) viewer

Formulas are in the game engine.
The game engine make the calculations and spits the play-by-play
The viewer takes the play-by-play and renders it in a graphic representation.

In the game engine there are almost nothing of what you are talking about.
But even this is irrelevant, because the viewern is concerned only with what you read in the play-by-play. You don't want the viewer to give different information that can't be found in the play-by-play.
And this limits a lot what you can do in the viewer.
And ignoring this limit only drives us to wasting our time.

I agree with you that the Animations of the play-by-play script... doesnt need to be the perfect representation of what the formula in the GE... Its just need to justify what the play-by-play Script is describing and the motion of the offensive team is based on what it observable in real life and logical movements to our eyes... and that the Defensive Team Player assignments and movements is based on their Setup Matchups and movements and coverage is based on what the Defensive plays' Pattern in Real life and Logical to our eyes.