BuzzerBeater Forums

We can imagine that initially it might have been just simple internal matches, providing only weekly minutes.
Later, the current system was introduced, with national tournaments and scrimmages, making it more interesting.

No, national tournament (cup) and scrimmages have been part of Buzzerbeater since its implementation.

Otherwise, you did spend lots of time and effort with your proposal, congrats for that, even if I do not really agree with them.

We can imagine that initially it might have been just simple internal matches, providing only weekly minutes.
Later, the current system was introduced, with national tournaments and scrimmages, making it more interesting.

No, national tournament (cup) and scrimmages have been part of Buzzerbeater since its implementation.

Okay. I modified it to this:
We can imagine that there is another system with simple internal matches, providing only weekly minutes.
Clearly, the current system with national tournaments and scrimmages is more interesting.

btw, I only know that JoeMaverick's proposition was rejected by the community. (304302.89)
But has anyone investigated where people's acceptance range lies for Thursday matches in terms of match intensity?
The following are some options I come up with:
Option 1: All scrimmages
Option 2: Current system: cup + scrimmages
Option 3: Cup + (intensity between cup and scrimmage) + scrimmages (playoffs)
Others

For me, option 2 and option 3 are okay.
But I'm a bit worried that option 3 or Plan C might not yield the expected results or could introduce new problems.

Last edited by little Guest at 04/23/2024 11:00:02

Scrimmages are for me one of the worst parts of the game. Tedious to schedule and only meaningful impact is training minutes and game shape management. I generally set my lineup after game Tuesday and don't check back until Friday morning to see training results. BBM was a good idea to help bridge the gap a bit, but it still seems a bit too random to be anything more than a curiosity.

However, game shape and training are heavily tied to this 2 + 1 format and managing minutes is very important when trying to make a deep cup run. I don't see how any other system would handle this without a MAJOR system change that the community is divided at best on and Marin doesn't have the resources to undertake anyways.

It would be a monumental effort, but I'd be more interested to see an "add-on" game that utilizes the existing engine and player progression system, but lives in a separate universe. Almost like a Utopia, but not even tied into the same player database. You could either do "arena style challenges only" or maybe just a faster league play and/or joinable round robin leagues based on your tier level. Something like Rival Stars or Top Eleven are the ideas here but with the BB universe touch to it. Something like this would attract newer users and a certain percentage of them may eventually convert to play the "Long Game" once they understand the mechanics and gameplay. Especially with proper cross promotion in-game.

The framework for a potential game is already created. But you would need a separate development team and have to hope that it would pay for itself in the long run through ads, supporter, in-game purchases, etc. The danger of splitting the userbase is still there, but I'd like to think they would have more synergy than competition. Especially if you make it more surface level and have less depth to it so they fulfill different needs.

Scrimmages are for me one of the worst parts of the game. Tedious to schedule and only meaningful impact is training minutes and game shape management. I generally set my lineup after game Tuesday and don't check back until Friday morning to see training results. BBM was a good idea to help bridge the gap a bit, but it still seems a bit too random to be anything more than a curiosity.

Does this plan in (323515.1) improve the situation you mentioned about BBM?

It would be a monumental effort, but I'd be more interested to see an "add-on" game that utilizes the existing engine and player progression system, but lives in a separate universe. Almost like a Utopia, but not even tied into the same player database. You could either do "arena style challenges only" or maybe just a faster league play and/or joinable round robin leagues based on your tier level. Something like Rival Stars or Top Eleven are the ideas here but with the BB universe touch to it. Something like this would attract newer users and a certain percentage of them may eventually convert to play the "Long Game" once they understand the mechanics and gameplay. Especially with proper cross promotion in-game.

The framework for a potential game is already created. But you would need a separate development team and have to hope that it would pay for itself in the long run through ads, supporter, in-game purchases, etc. The danger of splitting the userbase is still there, but I'd like to think they would have more synergy than competition. Especially if you make it more surface level and have less depth to it so they fulfill different needs.

This reminds me of pickup games.
It feels like pickup games might have the potential to serve more purposes than just testing tactics.

However, game shape and training are heavily tied to this 2 + 1 format and managing minutes is very important when trying to make a deep cup run. I don't see how any other system would handle this without a MAJOR system change that the community is divided at best on and Marin doesn't have the resources to undertake anyways.

It feels like you're trying to solve a bigger issue, like how to keep managers excited between Wednesday and Friday.
I agree that keeping managers excited while maintaining the 2 + 1 format is very difficult.
But in this thread, I focus on a smaller issue: whether we can make the matches on Saturday, Tuesday, and Thursday more interesting than when Thursday is a scrimmage.
What do you think about the Plan C in (323509.2)?

Does this plan in (323515.1) improve the situation you mentioned about BBM?

Not really. That just makes more meaningless games to ignore. I'd prefer scaled rewards by tier and fewer tiers. So moving up actually means something and you can see progress over time.

It feels like pickup games might have the potential to serve more purposes than just testing tactics.

Yes, this may be a good vehicle. But I think it is important to have the option to create your own team to compete. Goal is to engage new users since it can take literal years to build a competitive team. Most don't have the patience for that right out the gate, and those that do may be frustrated when they find they spent a year building players that are not competitive. I'm thinking to have a limited budget to create a team and then a leaderboard where you can challenge other teams for supremacy. Maybe you can add some fully customized starter potential players that are not available for league/cup/B3 play? Or just a 3rd team you can switch between like Utopia and only plays pickups & special tournaments?

What do you think about the Plan C in (323509.2)?

I don't really like it. Cup already takes resources away from league play where I have to decide whether or not to throw league games to stay in the cup. At least scrimmages are meaningless where this would be detrimental. Adding a 2nd lower level cup for teams knocked out of main cup by X round would be okay. I'd prefer the option for a walkover style 3rd game of the week once cup is over. You set your squad and they get minutes based on walkover rules. Some people will still want to collect flags, etc. But those who find it tedious and pointless can still manage minutes and get training.

Last edited by Gccsteel at 04/26/2024 15:32:25

i think this is the worst part, specially since you can use any tactic in any game that you want which is totally unrealistic

i think there should be a tactic "knowledge" for every team and use random tactics should be heavy penalized if you use it with "training" the tactic first. in this way each should only have 3 o 4 tactics to be used and would force people to use scrimmage tactics to train the tactic to use in competitive and important matches, similar to other games like hattrick

in this sense, it would be better to "scout" other teams also, since right now any team can suddenly play something else without any consequences making studying the other team almost irrelevant

This is an interesting idea, but I guess it would be difficult to convince vested interests.
I suggest you create a new post for it for two reasons:
1. It's a fairly large topic.
2. It's not directly related to this thread.
While it does add more meaning to scrimmages, it feels similar to the training situation.
Some people still find Thursdays boring without the cup.

I find it a bit strange to have to choose between two different paths for promotion.
Also, no matter if it's the Monrad system or the Dutch system, I'm worried that the computational workload might be too high, resulting in delays in scheduling.
Therefore, I have a new solution.

Plan D: Remove the promotion-related aspects from Plan C, and allow for repeated matches against the same opponents.

I'll briefly outline the content.
- After being eliminated from the cup or after the cup ends, teams will enter a ranked tournament instead of a scrimmage. (keep records)
- From being eliminated from the cup to Week 11 (with two matches during the All-Star week)
- Using a system: always #1 meets #2, #3 meets #4, etc., (not in the score groups)
without the restriction that no players can meet for a second time.
- Attitude is set to normal, the same as in scrimmages. (Open to discussion.)
- Neutral area (Open to discussion.)
- Add an additional statement to the Fan Survey: "The team had a good run in the ranked tournament this year."
- The award should be small.
For example, scale down the piecewise linear function to 0.2 times.
1st place: 100,000
17th place: 62,500
81st place: 37,500
337th place: 25,000
1361st place: 20,000
5457th place (non-existent): 15,000
(This way, rewards are visible and tangible)

1. In this way, most teams would have their key players start in both league matches, similar to current habits, without sacrificing additional league matches.
2. Like Plan C, the number of scheduling scrimmages is reduced to three, which can improve the complaint that some find scheduling scrimmages bothersome.
3. The meaning of the ranked tournament is to understand how strong their rotation players and backups are compared to those of other teams.
Managers would be more motivated to adjust tactics, making Thursdays a bit more interesting than before.
Unlike scrimmages, where managers primarily focus on training minutes and game shape management.

p.s.
1. In Plan C, for teams that did not participate in the cup at the beginning, they could play against each other in the Ranked tournament starting from Week 1, instead of having no matches on Thursday of Week 1, which would be more reasonable.
2. The system: always #1 meets #2, #3 meets #4, etc., should have a very low computational workload.
I'm not sure about the computational workload of the Dutch system (Swiss system) without the restriction that no players can meet for a second time.
If there is another system with acceptable computational workload and better effectiveness, it could be considered.

Last edited by little Guest at 05/06/2024 02:39:48